Racism in Healthcare is REAL, and People Are Dying Because of It!

This is The ARCC of Change with Donzel Leggett, a podcast from the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition, an organization dedicated to eradicating racism and hate and spreading anti-racism. Listen as Donzel discusses relevant topics that will inspire you and help build your capability to take action and change the world. Because none of us are doing enough as long as racism still exists. And now, here's your host, Donzel Leggett.

Donzel Leggett: Hello, and welcome to the seventh episode of Season 3 of The ARCC of Change with Donzel Leggett.

In this episode, I welcome physician and healthcare executive Dr. Tamika Lasege to share her incredibly inspiring story and perspective on racism in healthcare. We will discuss the longstanding disparities in care and health outcomes for people of color, particularly Black people, that even she, as a doctor, has experienced.

Now, let's get started with our show.

I am Donzel Leggett, host of The ARCC of Change podcast and founder of the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition, or ARCC. Our vision at ARCC is to build a racism-free world. Our mission is to provide inspiration, education, and support for you to transform, practice, and spread anti-racism and anti-hate.

This begins with our three-step process of personal transformation to anti-racism. The first step is erasing your ignorance about racism and hate. The second step is educating yourself about anti-racism. The third step is building the character and confidence to stand up, speak out, and take action to spread anti-racism and anti-hate and make positive change happen.

This is needed more than ever because, sadly, there are many places where we expect to still see racism. But one area where we don't expect to see it is in healthcare.

We tend to believe that people who go into healthcare, including nurses, doctors, technicians, and administrators, do so for the right reasons. Yes, we understand that they also want a career and need a job to support and take care of their families. But more than anything, we want to believe that they altruistically want to help people. All people, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, or any other differences.

We want to believe that they represent basic human decency. We also want to believe that they are scientists, true scientists at their core, who have studied the facts about the human body and humanity at a biological level. They know that race is a fallacy, a social construct, and not based on science. We want to believe that they, above all others, should know that we are all biologically the same.

Unfortunately, this isn't the case for everyone in healthcare. Racism in healthcare is real.

Consider past examples, like the so-called Tuskegee experiment, where hundreds of Black men who had been diagnosed with syphilis were never told they had the disease. Instead, they were told they were being treated for "bad blood." They received no actual treatment. In fact, they received placebos so that doctors and researchers could observe the effects of syphilis on the human body over an extended period of time. Many of these Black men experienced painful and debilitating health conditions, and many died from the disease.

Or what about the women who were experimented on and operated on in the 1800s by the so-called father of gynecology, without any anesthesia, because he believed that Black people didn't feel pain? I refuse to name him because he doesn't deserve the credit for modern gynecology. The Black women who were victimized do.

What about current examples? A February 25, 2020, Harvard Global Health Institute article titled "Racial Bias in Medicine" stated that race-based physiological myths have long influenced medical practice. Even today, some doctors believe that African Americans are more tolerant of pain. One study found that, relative to other racial groups, physicians are twice as likely to underestimate Black patients' pain.

A few years ago, researchers at the University of Virginia surveyed more than 200 white medical students and residents and published the results in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. The results showed that half, yes, 50%, of these medical students and residents held false physiological beliefs about African Americans. Nearly 60% thought that Black people's skin was thicker, and 12% thought that Black people's nerve endings were less sensitive than those of white people.

These racist beliefs in medicine have been ingrained for centuries. In the past, and continuing today, they have led to terrible health outcomes for people of color, most specifically and acutely African Americans.

In 2019, a report by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality found that, across a variety of healthcare quality measures, Black Americans and Native Americans received worse care than white people for about 40% of the measures. Hispanic people, Native Hawaiians, and Pacific Islanders received worse care than white people for 33% of the measures.

Racism in healthcare is real, and people are dying because of it.

According to the CDC, life expectancy among African Americans is four years lower than that of white Americans. In the United States, racial and ethnic minority populations experience higher rates of poor health and disease across many health conditions, including serious conditions such as diabetes, cancer, and heart disease, compared with their white counterparts.

Black people are at the highest risk for cancer death, even though white people have the highest rate of new cancers. The rates of diagnosed diabetes in the United States are highest for Native Americans, followed closely by African Americans, at twice the rate of white Americans.

Black men in the United States have a 70% higher risk of heart failure compared with white men. Black women have a 50% higher risk of heart failure compared with white women. Black adults are more than twice as likely as white adults to be hospitalized for heart failure.

The maternal mortality rate in the United States is highest for Black women. Their rate is more than two and a half times that of white women. Sadly, the infant mortality rate in the United States for Black and Native American infants is also the highest, at more than twice the rate of white infants.

Racism in healthcare is real, and people are dying because of it. We all need to pay attention, regardless of our race or ethnicity, because, as Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. famously said, "Of all the forms of inequality, injustice in health care is the most shocking and inhumane." And remember, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.

At ARCC, we believe in standing up, speaking out, and taking action to make positive change happen. Joining us today is a healthcare expert who is doing just that.

She has unique credibility to speak on racism in healthcare because she is not only part of the demographic that suffers most from healthcare injustice in the United States, but she is also one of the very few Black women doctors, representing only 2.5% of U.S. doctors.

Dr. Tamika Lasege completed her medical studies at Robert Wood Johnson Medical School in her home state of New Jersey after earning her Bachelor of Science degree in biology from Yale University. She completed her pediatric residency and neonatal fellowship at the University of Louisville. She then practiced in Level III and Level IV neonatal intensive care units in Texas for five years.

Dr. Lasege began her clinical administrative career as a medical director for managed care organizations, focusing on utilization management and quality of care for Medicaid members.

She then earned her master's in healthcare administration, or MHA, to further support her efforts to help medical providers improve value by lowering the skyrocketing medical costs we have experienced in the United States while also increasing the quality of care.

Dr. Tamika Lasege is not only a brilliant doctor but also an astute administrator who, through personal experience, understands the injustices and disparities in the United States healthcare system. She is standing up, speaking out, and taking action to help address them.

Dr. Tamika Lasege is an inspiration to all and another example of hope. Hope against all historic odds. And that's H-O-P-E: How Optimistic People Endure.

The physician, healthcare executive, trailblazer, and inspiration, my good friend Dr. Tamika Lasege, joins me next.

The ARCC of Change podcast is brought to you by the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition. Visit us at https://joinarcc.org/ to learn more about ARCC and join our movement.

Donzel Leggett: Okay, welcome back to The ARCC of Change. As promised, we're now joined by our very special and esteemed guest, my good friend, the fantastic trailblazer, Dr. Tamika Lasege.

Dr. Tamika, welcome to The ARCC of Change. How are you doing today?

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Thank you. I'm doing well. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

Donzel Leggett: We are so happy to have you. Thank you for joining us. I've had the pleasure of meeting you and getting to know you, but the audience doesn't know you yet. So let's start by having you introduce yourself to the audience.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Absolutely. Hello, audience. I am Tamika Lasege. I grew up in Newark, New Jersey, in a household of three to four generations. My brother and I had the privilege of having our great-grandparents live with us and raise us, influencing us like an additional set of parents. That is a unique experience I wanted to share.

I attended elementary and middle school in my hometown and earned a full scholarship to attend an elite boarding school for high school. That experience really shaped my education and career from there.

After that, as the first person in my family to attend college, I went to Yale University as a pre-med student and earned my medical degree from Robert Wood Johnson, which is now Rutgers Medical School.

I became a pediatrician, then worked as a neonatologist before transitioning to healthcare leadership, focusing on managing the quality of care for vulnerable populations. I currently live in Atlanta with my husband and two children.

Donzel Leggett: Wow, that's fantastic. It's so funny that you mentioned being raised, or partially raised, by your great-grandparents. That's very similar to me. Three of my heroes are my mother, my grandmother, and my great-grandmother.

I spent much more time with my great-grandmother than my grandmother because my grandmother still had to work. My great-grandmother was retired, so she babysat me from the time I was born until I was probably 14 or 15 years old. I would still go to her house. She lived to be 107, so she had a huge impact on my life. I've told many stories about her on podcasts.

It's really good to see that we have that in common.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Yeah, we do.

Donzel Leggett: Tell us about your career path and some of your experiences. Obviously, going to Yale and Rutgers Medical School and becoming a pediatrician isn't something many of us are familiar with.

I think I mentioned earlier that only about 5.7% of doctors in the United States are African American, and less than 3% are Black women. Tell us about your career path and your experiences.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: I will. First, I'll start by saying that I could not have predicted my career path. Meanwhile, I wouldn't change a thing.

Historically, doctors become doctors to practice medicine. They work in clinics, hospitals, or public health settings until retirement. That's what it meant to be a doctor.

Well, I originally wanted to become an elementary school teacher. I grew up in a family where the individuals had not gone beyond high school, and some hadn't even completed high school. A few of the teachers I had were the only Black professional women I got to see. One of them, in sixth grade, challenged me to aspire to something more.

After I finished my assigned homework, she encouraged me to combine my love of children and science and become a pediatrician. And so I did.

In the early stages of my pediatric training, I realized that the pediatricians doing the work for people and in the environments where I could see myself working were outright downtrodden. They were burned out and looked like they were losing hope quickly, although they continued to show up tirelessly and give their all each and every day.

My takeaway was that the system and the resources available for the work I thought I wanted to do didn't align with the outcomes I wanted to achieve.

So I started seeking other opportunities within pediatrics that would make good use of my interests and be fulfilling and impactful. That's how I found and fell in love with neonatology.

Taking care of premature babies and families during some of their most vulnerable moments brought me so much joy. The risks and challenges were high. While I have some losses that I will never, ever forget, the triumphs were even greater. The impact on families could last a lifetime.

I practiced neonatology full time for more than five years before moving into managed care. At that point, I served as a medical director and eventually chief medical officer for managed care organizations or hospital systems.

In these roles, I got to lead teams focused on improving the quality of care for children and vulnerable individuals, especially those who use the Medicaid system.

For me, this is monumental, given the fact that I was a child who grew up on Medicaid. To have my career come full circle was beyond my wildest dreams. I have so much passion and dedication for this work.

Donzel Leggett: That's amazing. I love the fact that you recognize how your career has come full circle.

It's another great example of how our social structures and the systems set up by the government can provide help for those who need it. They allow families to provide for their children and give them a chance to pursue the American dream, which would otherwise be out of reach.

For you to now be giving back and be part of that administrative system is really amazing.

I mentioned earlier that less than 3% of our doctors are Black women. You are one of those rare individuals. What unique challenges have you experienced? What has it been like to be a female doctor and, specifically, a Black female doctor?

Dr. Tamika Lasege: That's a loaded question. It's really difficult to describe and encompass everything in just a few words. I have some experiences and examples I can share that might help you understand.

First, I would say we have to remind ourselves to be proud and remember that we belong.

Some of the unique challenges involve how we look, how we dress, and how we speak. They have nothing to do with practicing medicine.

People talk a lot about imposter syndrome, and I have mixed feelings about that concept. I refuse to view it as something internalized by an individual. I believe those feelings, especially for Black female physicians, are implanted externally.

Donzel Leggett: Yes.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Some examples: I regularly have to state where I was educated and how many years I've been practicing before a family will feel comfortable with me treating their child. This isn't the case for my non-Black male counterparts. They don't have to do the same.

And this still happens to this day. I hate to normalize it, but we come to expect it.

There are some experiences I will never forget. I will never forget emergency situations when I would respond to a call for a baby in the NICU, the neonatal intensive care unit. I would jump in to perform CPR, and the parents would actually delay the situation to question my background.

There was a whole team of us. They didn't question anyone else, but they would stop me. They would rather let precious moments go by before allowing me to save their baby.

Donzel Leggett: Wow.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: I will never forget those moments.

I also remember attempting to take care of an elderly Black woman in medical school. She reminded me of my own grandmother, so I was determined to give her the best care possible.

In the sweetest and most sincere manner, she kindly refused to accept my care and said she would prefer to have an older white male doctor.

She was very sweet about it. She said, "Hey, baby, I'm really proud of you, but I need an older person, a white male doctor, to take care of me. So please go take care of that."

It was a hit, for sure. I was a medical student. But I will say that, having grown up the way I did, I wasn't offended because it wasn't about me.

Because this woman reminded me of my grandmother, I quickly channeled my grandmother. My own grandmother was just like this patient. She was used to doctors being older white men and believed they would be the smartest and best people to care for her.

These were the experiences that shaped their biases, which were then confirmed by societal norms.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Later in my career, when I was a neonatologist, there was a family that wanted an older white male physician to perform their son's circumcision. I would say, "No problem. Good luck."

Meanwhile, I would laugh to myself because, along with everything else I was doing, I was performing about 10 of these procedures per day. The man they wanted, who had taught me, hadn't performed one in 10 years.

Donzel Leggett: Oh, my gosh.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: I let them have him.

I'm no longer affected by these situations because I know they are more about the other person than they are about me. It takes time and experience to get there. But once you know and love who you are, you are less negatively affected by someone else's ignorance.

That being said, I shared something with a friend the other day. On the flip side, I randomly come across older Black women. I don't take care of them, I don't work with them, and they've only met me once. They might see me in a hospital setting or working as a clinical leader, and they'll simply stop to tell me how proud they are of me.

Donzel Leggett: Wow.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: I'm thinking, "You don't even know me. What if I did something wrong yesterday?"

But I get it. From their perspective, what they see of me automatically makes them proud.

It's up to my generation and the generations above us to instill self-love in younger people so they can reach this point sooner.

I'll share another proud moment. When my daughter was about six years old, she overheard a conversation about gender norms in medicine. I think it was a group of doctors and nurses talking. She spoke up with an "aha" moment and said, "Oh, I thought all doctors were women."

She's my daily barometer of pride. That was a fun moment.

Donzel Leggett: That's fantastic.

It's funny because the last podcast I did was with a man named Dr. Otto Stallworth Jr. He's African American, in his 70s, and has been a physician for a long time. He's an anesthesiologist.

He tells a story that's a little harsher than yours. He was called to save an older white man who was having some medical issues. The first thing the man asked him was, "Are you an N or are you a doctor?"

I asked him how he responded. He said, "I told him, 'Well, I'm a doctor. I am Black, but I'm not an N.'"

I asked if he still treated him. He said, "Of course I treated him."

It's just amazing what you all have had to go through, being such a small minority in a field that's so important.

This is especially important when you consider all the disparities people of color face, specifically African Americans, Native Americans, and Latinos in this country. We can go through all the statistics. You know them well: higher cancer rates, higher diabetes rates, higher infant mortality rates, and so on.

Part of what we hear is that people of color don't have much access to medical facilities in many of our neighborhoods or to quality healthcare facilities. There hasn't been much access to preventive medical care, and there aren't many doctors who look like us. There's also a history of mistrust.

Maybe you can tell us what you've seen. Have you seen evidence of these disparities in your roles with Medicare or Medicaid? Why do you think these disparities exist, and what can we do about them?

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Oh, yes. Sadly, there are too many examples to name.

There are a lot of racist mistruths in medicine. You've talked in the past about the belief that Black people don't feel pain, or don't feel as much pain, because their skin is thicker. The belief is that you can perform different procedures on them without pain medication because they'll be fine.

Donzel Leggett: Yes. I talked about that earlier. I think there was a study done by the Harvard Medical Institute or something like that, which showed that, I want to say, 10% or 20% of medical students actually believe that. It's crazy. These are medical students.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: The crazy part is that this isn't just history. That disbelief about pain still exists today.

Sadly, it's because the textbooks that presented that information as medical fact still exist today. We've got to get in front of these misconceptions.

One way is through research.

There is one example that has made me lose a lot of sleep, and I don't think I will ever forget it.

There was a Black child who died in one of the hospitals where I led the quality team. It was my team's job to conduct a thorough investigation.

I learned that the pulse oximeter, the device placed on your finger or toe to measure your oxygen level, is inaccurate on dark skin.

I had been in medicine for a long time at that point, and it was the first time I had ever heard that.

The nurses knew this was common knowledge and tended to be slower to respond, if they responded at all, when the device showed a low oxygen level for a Black person. Essentially, the nurses had calibrated their minds to the inaccuracy of the equipment.

This baby was on a continuous monitor. His oxygen level kept going down and down and down to nothing, but the monitor was grossly ignored because he was Black, all the way until he died in our care.

It was devastating, preventable, and unnecessary.

The backstory is that dark-skinned individuals were not included in the research trials used to develop that machine. It was calibrated for white people only.

It blows my mind. And this extends to so many other aspects of medicine. That's just one technical example.

Donzel Leggett: Wow. It makes me think about what you mentioned regarding textbooks still containing this information.

It makes me angry knowing that most of our current and modern gynecological knowledge was produced by a doctor whose name I refuse to say because I don't want to give him credit. He experimented on Black women who were enslaved and held captive, without anesthesia, because they believed Black women didn't feel pain.

And, of course, we all know about the so-called Tuskegee experiment. Black men, hundreds of them, were denied treatment and lied to. They were told they were being treated when they weren't, just so researchers could observe what would happen as their health deteriorated and they died.

I'm guessing there is a lot more medical information and knowledge that was gained through these experiments. Yet the people who suffered aren't represented in the recognition given to the doctors who gained that knowledge.

Is there any recognition in medicine or education to start changing the narrative around these people, including the so-called father of gynecology?

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Exactly. We're getting better, but we're just scratching the surface.

I agree with you. The victims, who were actually the heroes in this history, were left out. They should receive the recognition.

Personally, I'm not big on recognition. It doesn't drive me. My supporters tell me this is an area where I can improve because I would allow others to take credit for my own contributions.

I just want things to be better. I typically don't care about who did it or why. I used to think that part was for the history books and that I only cared about the impact. But I am fully aware that it does matter.

It broke my heart when I learned the truth about how these medical developments came to be.

I know I cannot change the past, but what I can do is speak up when others say, "Well, the Tuskegee Institute happened so long ago. Why don't you guys just get over it? Why don't you still trust the medical system today?"

That was enough. First, it was just one example. There were hundreds of those types of experiments, but that one alone was enough.

I can be a voice to bring that history forward and make sure the history is as complete as I know it to be.

Donzel Leggett: What about as a patient? Obviously, you're a doctor, but you're also a patient. You have children, a husband, and family outside of work. Have you or your family experienced racism or bias as patients, even though you're a doctor?

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Yes, of course. Sometimes even in the health system where I work. Sometimes it's by providers who don't know that I'm actually the person above their boss.

It's really sad. I try to come in as a patient. Then you realize that you receive better treatment the more you reveal how much you know about the system.

I hate that we have to do that. I never like to be a patient who pulls the doctor card, but sometimes the disrespect becomes so outrageous that I have to tell them who I am, what I know, and what I will demand in terms of acceptable treatment for myself or my family.

I'm familiar with another story. This one isn't about me, but it involves a Black man who was the health equity officer at a children's hospital. We worked together.

He witnessed racism and disparities toward himself and his family when he took his own daughter to that very hospital's emergency department for a sickle cell crisis.

Just that statement alone includes so many things: a Black male health equity leader going to the emergency department for sickle cell, and a girl who doesn't feel pain. Sickle cell is a genetic disorder that has a lot of disparities in terms of funding and recognition.

That was a lot in and of itself.

Donzel Leggett: Yes.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: But it was real life for him. From then on, sadly, he needed to wear his badge to be recognized every time his daughter needed emergency care.

Donzel Leggett: Wow. This is very distressing to hear.

Again, a number of us come from families that simply don't have access to healthcare or the knowledge to navigate the system.

I don't think I have a doctor in my immediate family, but one of my uncles was a respiratory therapist, so he knew enough. Anytime someone had a medical problem and wasn't sure what to do or how to make sure they were getting the right care, we would conference-call him to make sure we were getting appropriate care.

Whether it was my mother, my aunt, or anyone else, we would always conference him in.

Unfortunately, he passed away a couple of years ago, so we don't have that resource anymore.

I just want to give a shout-out and say thank you to the people who have that kind of knowledge and support. There are many people who don't even have anything close to that. Most of us don't.

It's very, very sad.

Switching subjects, I want to ask you about something that happened yesterday that impacts what's going on.

As I mentioned, less than 6% of doctors today are Black Americans, and fewer Black students are entering medical school.

We also just had a landmark ruling yesterday, with the Supreme Court striking down affirmative action for university admissions. We've seen states where state Supreme Courts have ruled on similar issues. I think California and Michigan have both seen significant decreases in minority student admissions to their schools of science.

My question for you is: As we try to figure out how to get more Black doctors in the wake of what happened yesterday, what do you think needs to happen? And why is it important that we have more Black doctors?

Dr. Tamika Lasege: It's extremely important. I'll start with why it's important, and I'll start with data and recent articles.

As a pediatrician, I'm going to focus on some examples involving children.

There's a well-known article written in the last couple of years that showed that when Black babies are cared for by Black doctors, the mortality rate is lower.

We're not just talking about better health outcomes. We're talking about death. Life or death.

There's a real thing behind what we call racial-concordant care, which is when the patient and the doctor share the same race. It matters. It matters to the point of life or death. When we don't have that, we see disparities.

Specifically, when it comes to healthcare in my field and education, including the affirmative action ruling that took place yesterday, education leads to so many other disparities.

When we talk about disparities, is it race? Is it income level? Is it education level that determines them? I always say all of the above.

They exist by race and socioeconomic status. They can exist by ZIP code, gender, and ability.

A friend of mine has an explanation that I really want to share on this podcast. It's about disparities and the way we use that term when discussing healthcare and education.

By definition, a disparity is simply a difference. Nothing more than a difference.

For example, there's a disparity in height between my husband, who's almost seven feet tall, and me, who's below five feet. It's just a difference. There's nothing wrong with that difference. It's simply stating a fact.

What we need to talk about is the reason behind disparities that could be prevented. Those are usually caused by inequities.

For example, inequities in wealth among our people are due to historic laws that prevented Black people from accessing education and homeownership. Those laws led to some of the disparities we see today.

Donzel Leggett: Yes. Those things could have been prevented.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: That's what we should be talking about. I really want to shift the conversation to healthcare inequities, the things that we can fix.

We know most of the inequities that persist today.

Donzel Leggett: Yes, and they're continuing to persist because of complacency.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Yes. Or ignorance and complacency among the people who hold the power to make change.

When people are aware, they have to fight the tough battle to create change. Not everyone is willing to take it on. It's exhausting, and you honestly lose more battles than you win.

Someone shared a phrase with me yesterday that I really had to think about. It was about making change in healthcare, specifically around quality. She said it requires "gentle pressure consistently applied."

As a physician, I love that play on words. As a leader, it speaks to me.

Immediately afterward, because she and I have a good relationship and she knows the lens through which I look at things, she acknowledged that, as a healthcare leader, that approach works well for white women.

When I was applying that same pressure, my pressure wasn't gentle because Black babies were dying daily. One of them could have been my own. I needed a fierce urgency.

Our organizations and systems aren't meant to do anything urgently. Not well, anyway.

But I refused to give up. So I did apply pressure consistently. However, you reach burnout quickly, and that's what you see in a lot of our leaders and advocates.

Donzel Leggett: Wow. This is really, really educational for me. It's a little distressing to hear all these stories, but it's also a wake-up call for all of us.

I think about this idea of consistently applying pressure.

I did a podcast at the beginning of this year titled "HOPE: How Optimistic People Endure." It's about the struggle of trying to drive equity and social justice.

It is exhausting when you see all these disparities around you. Sometimes it feels like you take four steps backward for every one step forward.

Yesterday's ruling disappointed a lot of people, I'm sure. But this is the concept: consistent pressure. That's what we have to do.

We have to find the wherewithal and inspiration to remain consistent, like those women who tell you how proud they are of you and why it's important for you to take credit for your work. That way, other young girls and young men can look up to you and say, "Wow, I can do that too."

And just a reminder for everyone: consistent pressure also means voting. Elections have consequences, and that's what we saw yesterday. It's a consequence.

So please apply consistent pressure, everyone, and vote.

I'd also like to ask you, Dr. Tamika, is there any final thought, story, or point you'd like to share with the audience before we let you go?

Dr. Tamika Lasege: I would say that, because this work has to be done consistently, you need to create a sustainable impact without killing yourself in the process.

You need to work and lead in a way that makes you most comfortable. It begins with learning about yourself first, loving yourself, and then improving something in a way that is authentic to you.

Donzel Leggett: Powerful. I can't improve upon that.

Thank you so much, Dr. Tamika. You are an inspiration to many, many people. I'm sure there will be many more who listen to this podcast and walk away inspired, with the drive to go out and apply that consistent pressure to drive change, educate themselves, and love themselves.

Thank you so very much.

Dr. Tamika Lasege: Thank you for inviting me to participate in this discussion with you. I am really inspired by the work that you do. Thank you so much.

Donzel Leggett: We hope to have you back soon. Take care.

Visit us at https://joinarcc.org/ to learn more about ARCC, donate to our cause, and join the movement that will change the world.

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I greatly look forward to our next episode and another opportunity to inspire you to become part of the movement that will change the world by eradicating racism once and for all.

Until next time, stay safe and continue to ask yourself, "Am I doing enough?"

And remember that none of us are doing enough as long as racism and hate still exist.

Thanks for listening, and goodbye.

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