Consumer Racism

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Hello! My name is Adonai. Jeremiah and welcome to the ARCC of Change Deep Dive talk show. Today we're going to be talking about consumer discrimination. So we're going to be talking about the discrimination that some people of color face when it comes to daily necessities like cultural food and clothes. When we're talking about this as a group, we had a really robust discussion and realized this is a much bigger issue than we had originally thought. And we kind of unpacked it a bit and realized that

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The consumer products that we have access to is really determined by the racial biases and discrimination and practices that are around us and reflective of our social racist and discriminatory beliefs. For instance, the types of products that are offered to us, whether it be cosmetic or food or other cultural items is really indicative of what is considered to be mainstream, what is considered acceptable and what is considered to be

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a socially valued product. And so there are things like makeup shades that are not offered in very dark colors. There are certain types of foods that are segregated to the international section of grocery stores or just not offered at all. And there are a lot of these things that often aren't thought of as a racism issue because it may just be written off as, oh, well, there isn't enough demand for that particular product or that particular service. But

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it still affects people very deeply and prevents them from connecting with their cultures and what they're used to. And so we really wanted to just dive deep into this today and see what we could do to overcome this challenge and really unpack it so that we can start a conversation around this. Because as we were looking and researching this topic, we found very, very little about it. And so we just wanted to focus on it and bring everyone's attention to it was viewing so that we could start more conversations in your lives and just really...

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brought in this discussion. And joining us today is Yabbi Iddikachow from Chaska High School. She's a junior there and she's gonna be joining us. And just to get us started off with a starter question, Yabbi and Adonai, have either of you struggled to find an ingredient that is commonly used in recipes that your family's like to cook or that you just really enjoy using? And just tell us more about that experience and how that has affected you.

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Yeah, definitely. So like when talking about consumer discrimination, one of the things that we face and one of these discriminations that we face is not having access to ingredients that we usually use in our everyday cultural food. So, for example, Ethiopia, we usually eat injera, right? And injera is something that we eat almost every day. It's not even like once a week or something like that. It's like every day, right? And this is a cultural food that especially my parents immigrating from Ethiopia and being here for 20 years.

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that is like home to them. Like the food reminds them of home. So food is really important, right? And so having to get the spices for these foods, the ingredients for these foods, the process that it actually takes is so long and hard. And I feel like it's something like you said, it's something that's not talked about, right? It's a struggle that immigrants keep quiet and face, right? They just accept that like, oh, this is what America is and this is what I have to fight for just to get my culture here at America, right? So...

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The process is, for example, to get the spices, they have to ask a close relative that is going to Ethiopia sometime soon, or anyone who's going to Ethiopia sometime soon, to get them the spice or get them the ingredients that they want. It's not like you can go on an online store and be like, oh, I'm going to get this spice today from Ethiopia. It's not like that. They actually have to ask a relative to get it. And if you don't have any close relatives that are willing or that are going to Ethiopia,

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to get you those spices, you're not gonna get those spices for a while.

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Yeah, I definitely agree with Adanais' point on getting the spices across to America. And also I noticed just here in America, the discrimination with the placement of foods in supermarkets. So we see usually that there's like an international section in a sense of they usually separate like Asian style foods from all different other types of foods. So you see the one section that's just filled with like Asian noodles and different things like.

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associated with Asian culture. And then you see Italian bread, garlic bread, in the same bread area as you see American bread. So it's that question of what's right to do in this situation. Why is one type of food othered and excluded compared to Italian food or European food? Why is European food being able to get into more into our culture than foods from Asia? And so it's that separation that

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really is kind of discriminatory. Discriminatory. Yeah, definitely. I feel like, for example, when we want to get our spices, like you mentioned earlier, to get our spices, we could get them from Ethiopia. But there also is, let's say, one Ethiopian store in Minneapolis that we may go to to get these spices. But usually, they're like a really small packet. And they're really expensive, right? So we usually don't take that route to get the foods. And it's like, like you said.

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Why is there like an internet, even in that international, in that international section, like I went to it just for fun, like just to look at all the different types of foods, like what I want to get. And it's just one corner, like in the store that you really have to try hard to find. And there's like mainstream foods that you can find popular, like American people usually eat in a day life, like noodles, like people like eat that like every day, right? And it's just basic things, those basic necessities, right? But the real question for me is,

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Why are these big mainstream stores only focusing on majority of the consumers, right? If I know anything about business, it's that a business should meet the expectations of all. It should meet the desires of all their customers and not just the majority of them. So why are they othering the minority groups? Why are they saying that, oh, this is not important to them. If they're minority, then it shouldn't matter, right? And it's like, no one's speaking about this issue. Like when we try to search resources about this, articles about this,

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We couldn't find anything. Like nobody's really talking about this discrimination. It's one of those like, discriminations are not overt, right? It's something that we just deal with, like unlike real regression that we deal with, and we just accept that part of our daily life as people of color, right? This is what we're gonna have to face. This is what we're gonna have to go through, right? But in reality, the real question is, why aren't they accustomed in their needs to minority groups? Like this should be something that's not just a section in grocery stores, but it's something that

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I can have access to. So I can eat the foods that are meaningful and important to me. So it's just these basic necessities that we are not able to get, right? Like food is something that we eat every day, right? Why can't I get the food that I need in my mainstream grocery stores? Yeah, I like that thought. And that also leads me to the thought of books and book products, especially in Barnes and Noble. We see that there are like different months for different races and during Black History Month.

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bookstores such as Barnes and Noble will like more promote their books that have African American characters in it. And they do the same thing for like Asian American Pacific Islander month and things like that. But that's like the only time you really see that representation like posted up for everyone to see. Why can't we always like have these sections or have these names in inside stores so that others can see like, oh, there's

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characters and there's books of people who look like me and there's a section right here for that instead of only including those sections during those months. And I feel like, you know, as a business owner, just only making one specific book that has a specific race in it popular and instead of interrogating it into the culture, it'd be more wiser as a business choice to be able to really promote all the types of books. So I really don't know why that goes on and I definitely feel like that's like.

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some type of like discrimination. Yeah, I definitely feel that too, because even when like talking about books, for example, like when you like read a book, like it's because like in like, I could say talking about schools, for example, this is a whole nother topic, but in schools, like when we've been read books, we haven't been usually read books with like people that we know, like in front cover, people that look like us in the front cover. So it's like when I read these books now, now that they're starting to promote more of like books with.

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like main characters being people of color, I realized that I have this automatic like feeling that all the main characters like not a person of color. Like I never, I catch myself never envisioning the main character as a person of color because of this promotion that they've been having in bookstores, this promotion of books in schools. Like I never have the perspective that the main character could be a person of color. And when it does, it shocks me. That's something that like I noticed I caught myself just because of the discrimination. It has.

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led me to have this stereotype in my head. So Adna, are you talking about like when in bookstores when they separate like the books by like races of characters, it kind of like construes your vision of like when you read normal books, is that what you're trying to say? I guess, but also like in schools too, like when like for example like they would only show us like majority like what we envision as an American, you know what I mean? When talking about schools or like bookstores even, now they're being a little more

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But when I was younger, I guess I would see that was the only books that would pick up, you know what I mean? That's how I get those like stereotypes or this perspective

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Like as you're reading them, like the mental image you form with the characters, like there's just no basis for forming a POC character. It's just, even if it's described with kinky hair or whatever, like you're still gonna imagine a white person. Is that what you're saying, Aydin? Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, definitely our minds are not like used to thinking of it like that. Cause we're yeah, so used to reading books that have little to no description mode of character other than maybe like wavy straight hair. And we automatically will envision like a white person. And so yeah.

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getting those books out there and promoting books that have different race characters can really help that bias and that stigma that we already have in mind and try and change that. Definitely.

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other.

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I've noticed something that has been touched on before. Definitely. I feel like when talking about like the stigma between like different colors of foundation, right? All the time when I go in the store, well, if you want to know anything about me, I don't really usually wear makeup or foundation. So I just like walking around makeup stores and seeing the foundation skin shades because I've noticed a lot of times the struggles that my like friends that have darker skin have to get their foundations. And

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Recently, when I went to the Mall of America with my friend, one of my friends, she has a darker skin tone and she needed a specific type of foundation, right? And...

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that she needed a specific type of foundation and it's a darker shade. So she had to get it from Fenty Beauty and it was this exact type that she needed to get. And it was out of stock. So she had to come back again. She had to actually go to Ulta Beauty to get that same foundation. And that was out at Ulta Beauty too. So it's like, why is there such low availability for like darker skin shades and even like to get the darker skin shade, it's only available in Fenty Beauty, for example, or like in one type of brand.

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So, and that brand is out of stock because it's so in demand. So it's just that question of like, why is it so hard for people who look different? Like minority talking about minority again, for minority to not have as much like available options for them, right? Like why are the brands only thinking about majority of their customers that are minority of their customers? Even looking at the shades that they have for lighter skin shades, there's like 20 of them. And then there's like four shades for like darker skin color.

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And so that's something that I really noticed that I was like shocked about. What do you think, Yavi? I definitely think that too, but not only like quantity, but there's also the issue of quality. Like some of these products that are made are foundations that are made for darker skin tones, sometimes really still don't match. And so I feel like inclusivity part in our businesses minding people with darker skin shades, such as like.

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You know, if someone comes from like South Sudan or things like that, when their skin shade's really dark, it's really hard for them to try and mix the correct things. Like the quality of the product can also like construe how it looks on their face. And so there's not a lot of options when it comes to like matte or poreless or things, different like shades and things such as that. So we definitely need to open up those gates for women with like darker skin tones, I definitely believe.

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I grew that. You want to just talk to me about cosmetics in general, talking about hair products, right? We want to talk about beauty. Like hair is something that I do every single day. And you know, for me, like, it's harder for me to find a hair product for my hair when it's like 4B, 4C, compared to like your hair, which is like 3A, 3B, right? 3B, 3C. And like, you can find products that can too, and things like that in your target stores. But for me, and like for like, let's say our little sister Lucy, we have to actually go to like,

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store like seven miles, which is like 30 minutes away from our house just to get hair products that we need. And when we go there, we usually stock up a lot. Like we buy a lot of hair products and we just keep it at our house because that's what's convenient for us, right? Just to do my hair on a daily basis. So it's like, availability is like, yeah, like why is it not available to us? Like these mainstream singers like Target, like I cannot go to Target for hair products.

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like period. Like there's a lot of like, there's some brands like pattern or something like that, that's more like inclusive. But even that doesn't work for my hair. Like the process that I have to go for my hair, like it's not an easy process. Like you have to test and try out so many products to get the right one for your hair. That's the thing about black hair. So we have to go to seven miles to get those to even get like an option for me to work with, right. And so and that's again, 30 minutes away. So it's like target.

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It's out of the question. Sometimes Walmart, we can get a few things there, but again, it has a limited selection. And so we have to go to Seven Mile, which is like off the 30 minutes away from my house in Minneapolis, just to get products for my hair. I've also noticed that products that are good for black hair that are maybe in Walmart or Target are usually run really low in stock, especially in areas that have a high rate of African-Americans or people of color.

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They usually like run out or are in low stock like a lot of the times. And again, an issue with like quantity, they're not supplying it enough for people that look like us. And also I have like a personal story. Like I usually my hair type is not too coily, not too coily. So I'm able to, you know, to get the products that I need from a local target using like Cantu and things such as that. But whenever I try and find a specific gel.

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that works for my hair. I'm usually not able to find that here where I live in Chaska. And so the options I have here is like Eco Styler and those things don't work for my hair. So I specifically use Got2b Glue. And I remember trying to search for it in Target and I went to Eden Prairie. They still didn't have that. So that's like a store 30 minutes away, a store that's around 20 minutes away from me. And so I had to travel 30 minutes away to a beauty supply store and they were also out of stock.

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with that glue, so I had to travel to another beauty supply store to try and find it. And I was able to find it, but then when I tried to order it online a few days before, the cost was really high and on top of shipping. So it just kind of shows how hard it is to really just get a simple, basic product to me as someone who mostly lives in the suburbs.

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And so yeah, that challenge is definitely there and it is a nuisance, but it's not anything that I can complain about because in my head it's like, oh, it's just a small issue, but it needs to be talked about for sure. Yeah, definitely. I feel like when it comes to like, when you saying like, it's a small nuisance, but we don't really talk about it, I feel like that's the main problem with like consumer discrimination and why it's not talked about that much because for us it's like, oh, this is a small thing. Like I can deal with it. I can just go 30 minutes away and just get it. Like it's not something that I should complain about.

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But then again, it happens to all parts of our daily life, like the food that we eat, the beauty products, makeup products, we just kind of like deal with it, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like that's like another one of the reasons why, as well, I'm happy to be talking about consumer discrimination today and why it's not talked about that much. And another factor is like the counter argument that I would probably imagine people saying is like, oh, in the places where there's not a huge population density of people of color, like,

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those products aren't gonna be offered because they just aren't enough customers. But then that automatically just excludes people of color from non-urban centers. Yes, there's gonna be a lot of seven mile stores. There are like two or three in Minneapolis, but that's because there are a lot of people of color living here. But if there isn't any sort of black hair beauty store in the suburbs, then how is a black person expected to live out there comfortably without having to commute in back to the city?

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And I think that's the case in a lot of urban centers. It's just like the way that we consume products and the way the products are offered inherently segregates us and pushes white people out where they can find the things that they need and pushes people of color back towards like urban hubs. Another thing that we had talked about earlier before the show was clothing and how ethnic clothes, cultural clothes, whatever you wanna call it.

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is impacted by this as well. And I, Yabbie, do you want to talk about that a little bit more? Yeah, definitely. So just to give you guys like an example, starting off how I decided to even include this was, so Chi Chi School has a club called the Soul Club and we're running a culture night. So we were doing a lot of promotion. We're going up to people telling them to join the fashion show and cultural performance, which is where basically people can do a dance with their cultural clothes, or they can...

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do like a fashion show, to walk with their cultural clothes. So we're getting people to watch, but also people to join. And when we were getting people to join, the struggle that we found was that people didn't have cultural clothes. Like they were willing to do it, but they just didn't have it. And what's really sad to me was actually a shock to me because I had like lots of dresses that I could choose from. But they, on the other hand, were like, the last time I had like my cultural clothes was like when I was five years old. And like, it's really sad.

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And I was wondering, why don't they have it? And I realized that it's so hard to get these clothes. It's not like you can go online and order online from the country that you're originally from. It's not that easy, right? For us, again, with the story of the food and the spices, we have to ask a close relative to go there and get it for us. Or like I'd say, they're going on vacation to Ethiopia. They would have to go there and bring us back, let's say, a gift and we could pay them back.

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So it's just a really long process. And it's like, people are like, to go to Ethiopia, it's like $2,000 per ticket, right? It's like people are not gonna be going there often. So it's really hard to get access to these clothes. And it takes months for this one dress to come in. And so it's just, it's just really like hard to get the clothes in general. And it's like, sometimes there are stores in Minneapolis, but they have really limited options and they're like way expensive than they actually are in the original country.

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So that's just one of the struggles that we face when it comes to cultural clothes. And it was something that I just recently learned that people struggle with. And I recently learned that my parents struggle with, but again, it's something that they don't talk about, right? They're not gonna complain about it, right? It's just another one of the struggles that we kind of like hold in and that we just have to deal with, I guess. Yeah, and a lot of the times we think about how...

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Cultural clothing equates with like knowing and learning your culture and being connected to your culture. A lot of these kids, they're not closely connected to their culture because they're not able to have things such as cultural clothing. So again, it's like, what does this say about their knowledge of their culture, their understanding of their culture? And not being able to have these things can like result in like less education, I feel like. And definitely having, you know, my cultural clothes at home and having parents who really teach me about my culture and all that.

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and do cultural traditions, I'm really able to like know my culture. And so I definitely feel like them not having, you know, such things such as our cultural clothes can really like defect them from learning about themselves. Yeah, definitely. I just feel like, like we were talking about consumer discrimination can lead to that. Just having not the lack of access to having cultural foods at home for those like second generation that don't get to learn about their culture, right? Because there is no access to them in these mainstream stores.

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It may be so hard for those immigrants who immigrated here, leaving everything that they call their language, their food, their home, leaving everything they can and having to balance their culture, their work, their children, and just everything in general. Like, it's just really, really hard for them. And that struggle is something that they usually don't talk about. And then what happens is the second generation, the second generation basically doesn't get that information, doesn't get that culture, doesn't get that language, and that just starts to spread and the culture is lost.

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So that's why I feel consumer discrimination is so important to talk about because really what we're talking about right now is trying to save culture, right? Trying to help those in the second generation, third generation and future generations to come to be able to have access to their culture, to be able to learn about their culture, even though they're in America. Yeah, and then that's a wonderful point that you bring up, Adnan. And I want to bring up kind of the flip side of this whole discussion is that

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Yes, there's a lack of availability of products that people want, but then there's also, on the other side, there are mainstream companies or even smaller, some smaller companies identifying that, oh, there's this growing population of people of color who are spending a lot of money on their products. What if we created a product that was our brand and tried to capture some of that market? One of the most famous examples of this is the Nike ProHijab, which...

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based a lot of backlash and was really not a very popular thing among Muslim women, as far as I could tell. And from what I read, I'm obviously not a Muslim woman, so I'm speaking past what I know, but that and also other things like the haircare brands, Contube and Shea Moisture being owned by white people and serving or creating products for black hair. Like these types of examples are just illustrating how the flip side of this is yes, but...

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But yes, there's a lack of available products, but also those products, when they are created, sometimes are just created for profit and aren't actually created by community for community. They're created by an app outsider or a white person to profit off of people of color. And challenging things to deal with. I just wanna hear both of your responses to that. And then there are a lot of different ways we can take this, but I guess what's your initial response that we can go from there?

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So basically, yeah, how you're talking about the Nike pros hijab. So Gabby was asking Fatou, she does track with us why she doesn't wear it. And she was like, oh, those are so uncomfortable. Like they're just like they're just not meant for us. Like, no, I've never seen anyone like who has to wear a hijab wear that. And they've all told me that it's so uncomfortable and that like it's just it's just a fraud. And I was confused of why it was a fraud. I'm pretty sure it was made by a Muslim woman. Like,

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models of the woman wearing it. But in reality, like you said, it's these people who are not of that culture making those products, let's say to get cash from those people, to get profit from them, right? And not really to actually think about the customer in their head, right? I feel like this is what happens a lot of the time when companies try to reach out to minority groups. And when talking about consumer discrimination, yeah, like when they try to, I guess, accustom to our needs, what happens is they're not actually thinking about the customer.

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thinking about the process that they can make. And because of that, the customer obviously is not going to get the product because it doesn't fit right to them. Right. So why can't we push out the people who actually know right about the culture about the cultural food and their product. Right. Because like a lot of times, let's say, for example, paprika is sold in stores, right. It's sold in like the international section of mainstream stores. And we use that in a lot of our dishes.

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but we call it like mid-mita, right? But the way it's made in Ethiopia, it's just, I don't know, it's a different taste, right? It's made differently, so we don't use the type in mainstream stores. So it's kind of like that. I don't know where I'm getting this, but having, I don't know, I don't know what I was gonna say. Yeah, Damien, do you have something to add to that? Well, when I think about it, yeah, this definitely, I feel like businesses are just using like,

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different reasons to cash in or like get more money by trying to be inclusive. But in reality, they're making something without much compassion or understanding and letting that be sold just for some quick bucks. You know what I mean? I definitely feel like Nike is one of those companies who's trying to do that. And yeah, no, it's definitely wrong. And it's really taking away voices of, you know, other Muslim women who.

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are creating a job brands for sports and things such as that. It's really taken away their voice and their business and their cause. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, I think we're kind of wrapping up this discussion. Adonai and Gabby, do you have any final remarks or should we get to the calls to action? That's all I have to say. Gabby, do you have anything else? No. All right.

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So as far as a call to action for you, the audience who's listening to this or watching the recording of this, what can you do to address this issue to make this conversation happen in your communities? And probably the first and easiest thing to do is to start a conversation. Just talk to people around you, talk to the people of color who you know, ask them what products they can't find or what products they feel like are being targeted to them and are not.

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like the Nike Prohijab, like what things are being, what they feel like they're being taken advantage of. Just start this conversation with people you know. Don't, of course, don't demand that people educate you about their experiences because it's our responsibility to educate ourselves and we can't rely on others to educate about their experiences. But starting that conversation with people, even if it's with a white person, to see if they've heard about things is just a great first step. And then if you're in a position of power, I highly, highly recommend that you do some

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deeper market research in your community to see if there are more cultural or ethnic products that you can offer that will serve people and actually help them find products that they otherwise wouldn't be able to find. A lot of the lack of available products, for instance, in supermarkets or in grocery stores is probably due to product managers or product buyers or inventory managers just not realizing that there's an underserved need and not realizing that their community is

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not going to their store, avoiding that store because they can't find the products that they need. And just doing some deeper market research, even just asking people questions could be a simple way to be more inclusive, more open and inviting space, and also it could increase revenue as well. And you can also just educate yourself about brands and people close to you, what they are purchasing, and just start these conversations and follow through with them and take action.

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So thank you all for joining us today on this ARCC Change Deep Dive talk show. Yabi, thank you for joining us as a guest as well. We really appreciated your input and the discussions that you were contributing to. That was really fun and very fruitful. And we look forward to seeing you again soon. We're gonna have another show in a couple months and we will be putting out more info about the topic and what we're gonna be talking about. All right, thank you all. Thank you.