Mental Health Impacts of Racism

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Hi, my name is Adonai. And I'm Jeremiah, and welcome to the ARCC of Change Deep Dive, where we teach awareness about racism to inform and inspire. Today, we're going to be talking about mental health impacts of racism. Most of the time, we hear about really big, gruesome hate crimes and racist acts all over the media. But a lot of the times, we don't talk about the subtle little aspects that people may experience on the individual level.

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The mental health impacts of racism are just as severe as they are pervasive. And we're joined today by Sandra McKetchney, a cultural sensitivity and awareness coach, artist, and podcaster with a mission to bring awareness to the dual identities we cultivate in this racially disparate world. Sandra, welcome. And would you really willing to tell our audience a little bit about yourself and your background in this space? No blemish on Jeremiah, but it's McKechney. I know. I couldn't see. Thank you.

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When I got here, I wouldn't think of you. Okay, so my background, working with people with disabilities, singer, songwriter, I used to travel a bit to put some income for some income in music, I did a little TV. Yeah, so now I have, I come with five offerings because of sort of the experience of the keynote speaker. And now I come with all of that, five offerings. And...

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The first one is double consciousness, of course. And I think we're gonna, I think we're gonna get into that a little bit. And then I have a video podcast, double consciousness is a whole bunch of trainings around cultural sensitivity and awareness, anti-bias work, anti-oppressive work, great trainings. And out of that came a podcast, a video podcast out of prco And that podcast is fueled by double consciousness. So we have a...

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number of guests coming on that are all about that. And it's a great show. And then the next thing that I do is I'm a certified life coach back by the International Coaching Federation, Cultural Sensitivity and Awareness Coach. And I also coach women that have had diverse challenges in their lives just want to leverage it and put it all together to live their best life. And I'm also a writer on medium.com. I love to write, I write about that and many other things.

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And then I'm also my singing is my big thing too. So that's me. Most of it, some of it. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that, Sandra. Thank you for joining us on our show today. So as you know, the topic today is going to be mental health impacts on racism. And just to start off, I want to ask you a broad question to get you started on just talking a little bit about yourself and your perspectives. And so I want to ask you about, we heard you talking about

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being dehumanized by racism and by people having these aspects of racism that cause dehumanization. So can you describe these aspects that cause dehumanization and describe that concept more in detail? Yeah, well, I'm Canadian, right? Wrong. Not really. Not my heritage or my nation. But I was brought here, brought to Barbados by the ships. And then in

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I came out of my mommy at eight years old, and then I came here. I came to Canada, right? But it's very subtle, but very nice here. I don't know if we were talking a bit about this before. So the sort of racism word is very sanitized as well. So...

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Things like when I went to sing, you know, I went to sing this feeling, this experience that you have that you weren't able to put to words until you wake up and you start listening to some of our giants, scholastic giants out here, brothers, sisters that are doing this work and they unpack it for you. Like definitely Malcolm X, Dr. Martin Luther King, James Baldwin, oh, Dr. Francis Crest-Welsing, Amos Wilson, there's Naim Akbar, there's a whole bunch of giants out here.

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that I call my elders in some regard, because I'm able to learn and humble myself and learn from these people. But when you, when I went out, I used to sing quite a bit going out doing women's groups and singing and stuff. And I went to this one, they, I did this, I made the booking, a friend of mine actually did it, but I talked to the person on the phone. They hadn't, they didn't see me. And the person I went with identifies as a white person and we went and I went up, I was so excited. She was singing that month and I was supporting her. I was singing the next month.

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And then I went in and I said to the lady, hey, and people, we call them here fur coats, rich white folk. Excuse me, no disrespect intended, but that's just how it looked, right? So I was so excited about singing there with my assimilated self. So she said, I said, I'm singing next month. And she said, she looked at the book and she went, I don't think so. And then she looked at me and then she looked at the book and she says, I have to get back to you. And something was happening to me. There's a card we're not supposed to use loosely. It's the art card.

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starts with an R and ends in an E. I don't know if you know what that card is. Yes, the race card. And I started to kind of think, it was the way she was speaking. No, I don't think that's it, but I am. We spoke over the phone. And when I speak over the phone, how do I sound? You know, unless I'm talking to my Bayesian family, you know, and I'm talking, now, ma, what happened? I come in over this week, and I'm like, all right. That's kind of a Bayesian accent. You're not gonna be able to tell, you know, really what I look like.

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So I came to my table and I sat down and my friend sat down inside of in front of me, my white friend. And she said, oh, my God, I think you're prejudice. And I was trying not to go there with my race card in my purse. But see, we only supposed to use that card for absolute emergencies. And even when you do it, you should be ashamed of yourself. So there's some level of shame. And over the years, we tell a lot of stories on my video podcast. Jeremiah has been on.

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And we tell a lot of stories because we have been able to, we filed these stories and think, oh, come on, just pull up yourself by your bootstraps and move on. And that's not the case. Those stories affect us in a multi-generational way, right? So somebody had a lot of stories back there worse than ours. And just because they're sort of subtle and sanitized, a friend of mine went to buy a house one more before I tell you this dehumanization thing.

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in, because sometimes you think it's over and you're walking around, sound like everybody else, good morning, good afternoon, and good evening, and then something happens and you remember, oh Lord, you know. Hey, I don't know, you might get an idea what I'm talking about. You certainly saw. So I'm where was I was, I was going to tell you another story, a quick one, a quick one. And somebody said to me, Oh my gosh. Oh, yes. There was a baby that was rolled into a room. Young.

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about three years old, three or four at the most. I knew the mother and I knew the mother's first child. This child came in the room and the child looked at me and it started to cry viscerally. It just started to cry. And immediately I went, I'm working on this little book and this is what I said, this is the title of the book. Is there something on my face? And mom looked at me and she said, oh, the child not socialized to being around black people. And that hit me so hard because I'm thinking the child.

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And then I'm thinking, why did that come from the mother? And all these things go through your space. And why was that even a thing to say to me? Maybe the child's watching a lot of, maybe true, not around. I don't know, maybe I scared it, I don't know. But that came out of mom says that there's some sort of socialization and some kind of thing going on in there. Right, in the home.

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And it really disturbed me. And so there's a lot of these stories that a lot of us have. And I'm trying to make a collection of those because they're very relevant as to how people see the bias, the unintentional, unconscious bias. And that alone can internally cause you to oppress yourself. So the dehumanization may not be overt. But I didn't say anything or I didn't mean it.

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You know, something's wrong with you. You're too sensitive to gaslighting and that. But that, I hope I answered your question somewhat. That can really make you feel that that word comes into play there. I like how you shared those stories. Those are really good stories because even like people think like racism has to be this really big thing that happens. Like police brutality, these big events. But even these small stories like this can actually have a really big impact on how the person is affected. So thank you.

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Absolutely. How you see yourself as a human being, as a woman, a man, how you see yourself on this planet for sure. Yeah, well, I'm going to ask this next question and forgive me if I'm asking it wrong, because I've never obviously had any lived experiences of feeling the impact of racism. But as someone who is trying to help those around me who are dealing with such experiences, who are racialized. That's my assimilated word kudos.

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I can imagine that living in a world where you're racialized could feel like a neverending battle like you kind of described even like you feel like you're out of it and then oh then it hits you and you have to deal with it all over again. How can people manage that pressure? Do you have any points that could help people really just

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decompress the weight, the dehumanizing burden of? Absolutely. Like for me, sometimes I watch this video called Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome, Dr. Joy DeGroo. Whoa, hey, hello. People need to watch that. Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome, Dr. Joy DeGroo. Sometimes we just got to be honest with it, and people out there better stop getting too offended. We're so nice up in this land here. Everybody, oh, no, don't say it like that. Let's face it. Our people, some of us are loud.

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you know, and this is what it is. But the pressure is real in that if people can just have a conversation, you know, just talk to me. And I'm right now on my show, like I've learned so much, I had my Indigenous sister on. And she was teaching us about what is a safe space for her. What is acceptable conversation for her. I want to find out from you what's acceptable. I want to find out from a white person. What happens in your table? Do you guys ever call people niggers?

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Now, what do you do? So I have close friends, a couple of close white friends that I've known for many years that I can kind of pose those questions to. And I think it's important to have that conversation and make sure you feel safe. I can't create a safe place for everybody. You might come on my podcast and I tell you it's a safe space. No. But you have to tell me if I come to you, what is safe for you? And how do I treat you? And that's my kind of.

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caption is, it's not your fault or mine, but together, we can do something about it. So it's the conversation. It's the respect and okay, I don't know, can you, can you tell me about it? I don't I don't get it. So in bringing people on the show, I have grown in myself, the way I may look at an indigenous person. And, you know, my, my, one of the, my, my guests was like, you guys see us on the road, you always think we're just drunk and we just, you know, but you guys drink indoors.

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You drink indoors, you're sloshed, you know? And but we're connected to the land. We're outside. That's what who we are. And it just taught me a little bit of a lesson. You know, things are very sanitized. The racism is very sanitized. My friend went to buy a home in very close to where I live. And this is the late 20th century. She went to buy this house and she could hear the man talking to the man.

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you know, going to buy the house from talking to the agent and said, I don't sell to niggers. And my friend like this is, this is in my lifetime. So my friends said, you know, it's so it jolts you where you're like, Oh my gosh, just when I thought I was assimilating so well, um, you know, someone following me in the store as I grew up and I'm excusing it. It's, um, really being honest with people that know that bothered me.

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that I stifled it, but it bothered me and it hurt. Why would they follow me? I'm assimilated, I'm as white as anybody else. No, you're not. Right? I have a culture, I have a heritage, and I need to be to find out in a multi-generational way what that looks like and be proud of it. I was just talking, just before when I was talking to Adonai about, she's from Ethiopia, yeah, and we're talking about the food and the

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culture and how people think I'm a farmer, so many always bow and say salam to me, to think I'm a farmer part of Ethiopia. And I thought I probably, maybe I have a gene, but owning who you are is the most beautiful thing before you own who you are in the Eurocentric construct. Like going back and finding out who you are and as a coach, meeting people that kind of that conversation can dispel a lot of the

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pain, like once we start looking at or unconscious, the way I look at Indigenous people, so I see someone on the street, I make all kinds of assumptions. And how do I know what they're going through, where they're coming from, whether it's a poor white man, or it's an Indigenous person or a Black person or, you know, so that bridging the conversation with people, and I start with the people that are closest to me in my life that I've known for many years, that's the conversations that I start to have.

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right? And bridging that. And then they, I have a friend, we call her the primer. She's white, pasty white. I'm sorry, nobody get offended, okay? But I mean, we're connected and that's how we talk. So she will go to her family and she will speak to them because she's been to my trainings. And we, at first it was a little rough because she'd say, where'd you get all this from? Because I was very white. My friends would say, you're so white. And I love me some white. But if that's not who I am, I need to own my culture, my heritage.

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way back, right? 21st century, 20, 19, 18, 17. I need to own all of that, come toward the 21st century, deal with it. First time I really looked at slavery and what it meant, not just the slavery shows and the movies, but what that really looked like. I balled like a baby, you know, when I realized what they did to us, what they did to our children and our babies. So you have to own that. So we come back into the 21st century and we're not going to do anything to anybody, right?

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Racism is a word and it just defines something. I think I just froze, sorry. No? Okay, good. But anyway, I just, that to me, the conversations, the genuine conversations are the biggest thing in the world and telling your stories in a way that people can say, oh my gosh, really? Because you'd be surprised how many people don't know. You know, that aren't aware genuinely. Yeah. Exactly. Thank you so much for, yeah.

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Thank you for sharing that because we're actually going to ask you a question about how important it is to have healthy conversations like this. And like you said, if we don't have these conversations, we'll never know. So I feel like that's really important. So thank you for sharing that. For our next. No, I said absolutely. Yes. For our next question, we're going to be talking a little bit about mental health and people of color and how if you were sharing these stories, how these little subtle things, little.

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affect us in our daily lives and how that grows up with us. Like you said, these can actually affect your identity, like who you view yourself as. We experience these microaggressions daily on a daily basis and this can actually have an effect on us when it comes to mental health, when we're talking about mental health and its impacts on racism in our daily lives. Just throwing out a statistic, African American children are less likely to receive mental health

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actually I'm by the APA. One of these reasons may be because of a lack of diverse providers, right? Not having those diverse providers to sit down with us and talk about these experiences. We don't have providers that can actually relate to our experiences, or maybe there's a language barrier that's stopping us from communicating with these diverse providers. So many of the time people of color don't get the right treatment they need for these aspects of mental health, right? So the question I wanna ask you is, what steps do you think is necessary

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equitable and diverse mental health care for people of color. How can people get these resources to help support them? I think first education is huge. I have a friend, she's a master coach, white woman. And honestly, she's in the hospital, is actually working with nurses, doctors. They get to decompress. That is her role. And I think and she does this work as well. But the education part is huge.

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And now let's not be an anomaly to each other, but get in there and if you have a relationship, you know one Black person, that you can have this sort of reciprocal conversation, this camaraderie. Get in there and because our people, our history is that health care system has meant us no good at all. So I mean, our women were held down by what's his name? So Dr. Sims, I forget his name now, the full name. They took down his monument some years ago.

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And he used to cut in to on the nest of on the nest the size slave women, because we couldn't feel right all the pseudo scientists, you'll have blooming blocks Carl on the mass Darwin, and his cohorts and his cousin, you know, these were things that they thought we don't feel. Look at the size of the woman's bottock isn't she asking to be raped. No, we just born God given bottock.

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that forefathers of the other side have passed on to us. I mean, my grandfather is Scottish, my father is mixed race. There's all, we have, we have white grandchildren, we have white babies. We know what it is like to sort of, to care and to love my people, as I'm talking about my nation, brown and black people, you know? But when I think about trusting, when you're holding down in generational, what are parents telling us? You're holding down on anesthetized,

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slave women to cut into them so you can produce a vaginal speculum. It doesn't look the same as it did back then. But women you will never look at your pap smear the same again, but seriously speaking when there's a lot of trauma, you're you know when people are massacred and dismembered and all sorts of things going on and you you're you're now we're coming back right since the 21st century 21st century 20 19 18 17 when the cusp of slavery

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Did you think that just disappeared? Boom, and here we are today, 21st century, and everybody's good. Well, somebody passed that on to me and passed it. My mom, great-grand, keeps going. It wasn't that long ago, right? So I think even when I was telling you the story about my friend buying that house, the man's telling the, I don't sell to niggers. Do you know how traumatic that is for a moment? That's why sometimes, in all honesty,

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Some people might need, I do this work, sometimes you need to white out. I'm telling you, because I'm saying from where I'm coming from. Sometimes it is stressful. Even with my good friends, I'm sometimes like, no, you don't get it. And, and getting it means awareness and action. So it's not just, oh, I got it. I, I, you know, uh, right. I think like, um, I'm here on the show and I'm doing the work and, but are you, are you really getting it? Are you aware? And are you really active in?

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in terms of even if you're offering a job, what do you look at? People get so upset about affirmative action and all these things. Why? The point is, a friend of mine, she's white, she's going for a job and there's Indigenous peoples, there is Black people. She will absolutely withdraw herself. She's been on my show and she does this work. She's magnificent at it. And she's very conscientious about picking up all the air in the room. You know what I'm saying? And I love that. And I love it. I love it. I think

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that are my people, a lot of people are like this overall, but especially our Indigenous people, Black people, very, we're concerned about even mental illness, how people look at us. We can go through depression, which can morph in like one of the types of mental illness, depression, anxiety, going into substance abuse. And there's a lot of things that we deal with. And...

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My friend from Ethiopia, she's a therapist, she says, if we had our community the way it was established, fundamentally, we wouldn't need any help in terms of therapy. Very spiritual people, deep people of faith connected. So when we were scattered to the four corners of the Earth, whether it's transatlantic slave trade, sub-Saharan trade, apartheid colonization, imperialism, a lot of things, we were ripped apart.

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Right? So a lot of things happened here. So that whole issue of going after you see, if you really look at our past, what they did to our babies, what they did to the people, you understand why we will. It's very difficult for us to step out and say we're going to a therapist. And you are looking for somebody like you. And why is it that everybody else can look to somebody like themselves? And it's sort of a what's wrong with you guys? Black power movement coming in. Why do you need a black therapist? Well, I need one because you don't really know me.

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If I'm going in for some stuff that goes way back there, no, I'm not saying that you can't go to a white therapist. I did. But I also recognize in hindsight that when I understand where we were going in those sessions, she didn't know me. She didn't know me as a person in my nation, in my heritage, in my ethnicity. I'm rambling on. Ask your question.

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That's a very good point you bring up, Sandra. I want to go a little further into that health point, even past the mental health aspect of diverse care and therapy. I don't know how this has been in Canada, but at least in the US, some health care systems have started to treat racism as a physical disease and have started to treat the physical symptoms and byproducts of.

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the embodied effects of racism accordingly. And I don't know how far it's gone as far as being codified into insurance codes, but individual healthcare systems have started to adopt this practice as a form of equitably treating people and finding a name for something that they couldn't explain previously. What is your reaction to that? And just out of curiosity as well, is that taking root in Canada as well or?

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What are your thoughts? Honestly, I never even thought about it until you had mentioned it to me. Until I got, I, because I realized that to me, it can perpetuate disease for sure for us. So I'm looking at us now. There are people that look like me when, and then I'll get to the other side here. The other nation. But when you're thinking it can perpetuate hypertension and heart disease, anxiety, it can put you, definitely it can cause disease.

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Right? That's the reciprocal part when we get the affliction. That's what can happen to us. Yes. Now, the other side now, so-called byword, sorry, guys, white people. So the challenge there is if you form a generation, 21st century, 20, 19, 18, 17, if it goes way back then you're from a generation of people that were dismembering folks. And, you know, just mental, honestly, I'm not saying mental illness. What I'm saying is.

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If that's kind of thing isn't dealt with, if you think you haven't passed it on, the example to me is this. How many times have you guys heard, oh, you sound, you look like your aunt, you act just like your mother. And people think they don't pass things on. Look at you, you're behaving. I see your father in you. And this is the reality. We are passing things on inadvertently, right? You don't even think about it.

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I look exactly like my mom. I have ways of my father. You know, I got a plan, right? We all got this thing. But if we are thinking we're not passing something on, this infection or disease, however people want to label it, is being passed from generation to generation. And when I am sitting with someone or coaching someone that is feeling dehumanized by the upper echelons of management and they're just...

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pouring this out. And I know very well exactly what they talk about, what they're talking about, because I'm supporting people in areas of social justice when I get the opportunity. It is a horrible, horrible experience. You are actually someone that is somewhat diseased, if you wanna call it, or infected, inflicted themselves, is really dealing with you in a way that is you're feeling dehumanized, you're feeling oppressed. And that person genuinely may be unaware that they're unaware.

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Right? So what's this going on? You got your thumbs in yours and fingers over your eyes and going along and just following the protocol. And you're not really that safe will never that space will never be safe for that Indigenous brother or sister, for that Korean brother. Right. So I'm learning for myself as I'm doing my show, Voices of Humanity, I'm understanding that I need to look, I'm going to have my Indigenous sister back. I have a woman coming in from India and she's going to talk about

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the racism and how people are, the women are treated in certain areas deplorably and what that means to her. So it's important. It's not your fault or mine, but together we can do something about it. That's the reality. And I think, um, yeah, I hope I answered your question. Did I? Yes. Yes, you did. Um, yeah, that's fascinating. I love your, your motto there. It's not your fault or mine, but together we can do something about it because so many people just get stuck up on

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Oh, well, I didn't cause this, so I shouldn't have to solve it. But you're so right that we mean the problem still exists, whether you can call you directly cause it or not. And we still have to do something. But the interesting thing is I look at some of my white affiliates and so on. And I realized I'll say to them, well, careful what you're passing on to your grandchildren or to your children. Right. You weren't there, but some gene in you was back there.

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that belongs to somebody that's passed off right through to the 21st century. We are perpetuating. And if we never talk about it, like we'll never be able to change that or break that generational curse that's happening. Absolutely. Absolutely. And when people are doing this work again, it's like, I love the, yes, people are the Black Lives Matter. There's some genuine people. I know a little bit of the background or where, hmm, what that really looks like, but there's some genuine people in there that are

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really Black Lives Matter, heck yes, it matters. And that in itself, for me, the real Black Lives Matter movement was James Baldwin and Dr. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X, that's the real Black Lives Matter. Such dignity and poise, and they knew how to do this thing. I'm not ditching anybody, but you know, certain things I didn't appreciate. But when I look back at the shoulders that I'm standing on, huge.

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Right. We have some giants that have put this work forward. So I'm very conscientious. Dr. Frances Press-Welson, a psychiatrist that stayed in her community to help her people. She could have been making some money, but teaching us how to think and who we are. And so when people see black people getting together, it's like, oh, no, because of course, that's that's come from the past as well. You think, you know, we're in there uprising. You know.

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and doing something maybe we're not supposed to or whatever. But when we're getting together, if we're doing this work, I think it's wonderful. I think it's wonderful to have collaborators, eh? And white skin in the place, like Jeremiah here. It's wonderful. We need to have that, right? Some people would disagree, but like, we don't even know why people up in here. I get you, I hear you, I feel you. But I also know that we are very connected.

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biologically to white people, a lot of us, and some are not. But I think also if we're making things better and we're not sticking with the fault, it's not you, it's you, your people, blah, blah, blah. But it's us together that we can do something. And there are those people that don't wanna be together. Okay, because the KKK, they're not wearing white hoodies anymore. They got suits on. So, you know, and sometimes that's what I think is the trauma too.

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for people in terms of illness, mental illness, you're surprised someone in a suit sitting, you know, the upper echelons of management. And the way that people can be treated is horrible. You don't see it coming, right? It's like they cut you in the dark and then ask you why you're bleeding. So as Catrice Jackson, she wrote a wonderful book. It's called Weapons of Whiteness. Plug for Catrice, she doesn't even know me, but her work, I love her.

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I know y'all people might not be able to stomach it, but she just keeps it real. That's enough said. Well, thank you again. We're going to transition here really quick to a quick video. We're going to show the video and come back in a few minutes to respond to it.

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As a black girl in a racist society, you kind of learn to hate yourself. Kids used to always make fun of my hair. They said that it looked like I was electrocuted. I never let my hair be natural as a child. I'd always try to make my hair look like a bit more Eurocentric. I thought that was beauty and whatever my hair was, was ugly. I wanted white girl hair, is what I used to say.

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as a child. I literally hated myself. I hated my skin. I thought I was inherently wrong or bad. I would get into the bath and I would try to scrub my skin off, scrub my darkness off of me because I thought it was dark. And children can be really mean. So they'll come and they'll bully you about your dark skin and your frizzy hair and this and that or why are your gums that colour? Even why are your lips that colour? You know, you just felt like othered.

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After I left school, I became the bully. Like, I was the one bullying myself. So I'm just trying to unlearn how I was taught to hate myself.

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Around 2017, I was invited to LA to attend E3, which is the world's biggest video game convention. And it was around the same time, coincidentally, as Trump's travel ban. And because I was born in Sudan, that ultimately meant I was not allowed in the country. I was seen as a threat to the country. And I remember trying to apply for a visa on my phone and being rejected. And I remember sitting there and thinking to myself,

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Everything I've ever worked for, everything I've ever done, everything who I am has been completely negated, demolished, based on my race. I remember that fear and that feeling of dejection sticking with me for an entire month, not knowing if I was going to get that visa or not. Until I got through the embassy, and luckily I did, but the fear, the feeling of sadness, it never left me, it never will. I never know when again my race or something will be gone.

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that I have no control over will dictate everything. Colourism has affected my life in many ways. Many unconscious ways that I didn't know affected me until this day. Compared to other girls with lighter skin tones, black people, we are often treated differently. And it's made me have a distrust in not only authority figures, but myself. In primary school, I was quite an overachiever.

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and I loved taking part in the school's activities. I was a bit of a goody-two-shoe, so I did my homework. I was part of the school orchestra, so I played a recorder and a clarinet. I remember coming back from a music lesson, and this girl just stopped me. She made me drop my folder and my recorder on the floor and just started trying to provoke me. She was a lot stronger than me, so I had to fight back, and after that, she just told the teacher that I attacked her.

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When my head teacher didn't believe me over a mixed race girl, it affected me in a lot of ways. It just made me feel like really alone. I felt that I wasn't able to really have a voice and it didn't matter if I was doing well at school or not doing well at school. I was always going to be seen as this angry black woman.

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In the black community, there are certain words that we don't use. I know growing up in Jamaica, I never heard the word mental health. We all have it, but not everybody understands what it is. I was going through a difficult period of time with a divorce. Depression came in my life as a result of those situations. I had a traditional white lady counselor. I don't know whether or not I gained a lot out of that, but when I did the second session with...

35:07

somebody from Sri Lanka and he actually made me feel quite at ease when he started to talk about his own cultural background and how long he's been in practice and where he's worked before etc. and that in itself was almost saying to me, you know, I understand. Many people have said to me, unless there are black practitioners in those services, people won't go and a lot of black people are scared of mental services.

35:36

because of this reason. We're not challenging people about their professional work. It's about the understanding of the cultural side of things. And that is something that's missing from mainstream service.

35:51

All of these experiences have taught me to be a kind person because I know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of hate. I'm just so happy that I didn't chain myself for anyone and I kept my differences. And the person I am today, I love her, I love who I am and I wouldn't chain that. For me to be the change I want to see in the world, I have to keep my identity and I have to be true to who I am. The fact that there isn't enough services

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where there are cultural therapists and counsellors. I'm using all my energy to try and help other people.

36:51

Wow, that was quite the video, Sandra. I think we're all having a lot of that video. Really? Yeah, yeah, it's very powerful. There are a lot of different people and experiences and emotions that were expressed in just a short time. Just generally, what are your impressions? Are they familiar? Is this? Yes, I love that being together, getting together is our strength. And even from days past.

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The big thing about flavor was don't let them, we weren't supposed to get together. Our faith was huge for us, that wasn't allowed. So coming together, that's why when people see, you see police pulling up beside, people are just going to get hair cleaned, hanging out. And they're being checked and carted, which is supposed to be not a thing, but it's still a thing. But, and all of that, so being together, collaborating together is huge.

37:50

for us. That's why I want, of course, coaching women of color is huge and all women. And especially for me, if you're talking about the whole byword thing, white women, because some white women really, really want to understand some of this and some because it doesn't affect you in your sphere. You know, you'll just continue passing things on. And I'm hoping that will change for people. You know, I have some God children that they don't

38:20

They're white, they don't see the world the way anti sees the world. But I'm hoping, because they don't have to think about the intersections of dehumanization and racial bias. And some people think it's by proximity. So we have white people hanging out with Black kids and Indian and Indigenous. Oh, no, I get along with everybody, really. So.

38:45

implicitly what are you really thinking on at times what passes the things that was passed to you is going to pass through you they're passed to you and they're going to pass through you they pass through me i was assimilated to be white like you so now when i woke up i had to push back against that and go um whoa what just happened here i'm black you know and what does that mean so we know the color thing those are by words right

39:13

We're intended to be nations of people collaborating together to do amazing things for the most high God. And that's the reality for me. And so when I come to it, I come to it from that mindset. You know, our people, I mean, some of our people, like we don't want to wipe people up in here. And I'm right there with them too, because I get where they're coming from, you know? And then those that, okay, no, collaborating in a different way, that's okay too. Because I think that really, for me, that does a wonderful, I have a wonderful experience with that.

39:43

But but that video collaborating and coming together is big for me. Really big for me. And I've had a couple of people on the show that I'm not convinced that they got the awareness in action. I'm not they're doing the job. They're out there doing the job. But do you get it? I have this little thing called scat. It's not the she did it. No, it's not that scat. It's saturation. Yeah, conversion.

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application and

40:41

I married white, nothing is anything wrong with marrying some white, but I'm just saying, if you don't know who you are, Dr. Neely Fuller, right? It's like that's not what is it Stockholm syndrome, you will align multi generational captors if you know what I mean in the 21st century. And if you don't know who you are, what are you doing? You're right. There's almost like a default button. And don't allow things to null and void your beautiful heritage.

41:09

We are people called by God for a purpose. And we are powerful, amazing people, especially when we get together and collaborate. And it should be reciprocal with all other nations, our Indigenous brothers. You probably don't know that, but they are. And I had a lady from the Philippines, and she was saying, you know where our roots come from? And I said, where is it? Africa. I said, OK, yeah, go to Africa. It does. And

41:35

A lot of many, many things came out of Africa. And I'm laughing. Sometimes my sister said to me, Lana, it'd be amazing if some of the white people know that they may have a drop. You might have blonde hair, blue eyes, but you got one drop.

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I'm laughing. Honestly, you may have one drop of black blood in you. So I'm very conscientious. And people say we're family. We're one people. We're all together. Oh, it doesn't matter. Color doesn't matter. Well, it matters so it doesn't matter. So in other words, I need to look at Adonai. That's a beautiful name. As I love this to meet the open food and my girlfriend, she's from Aritra, same people, but.

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You know, and I had to know her, her culture. They're from home. So she can look at me and say, San, you really presented white for real. But because, and then she understands the fact that I'm from a whole lineage of people that have been assimilated into a Eurocentric culture. Now I'm pushing back. The coloniality of the brain. So we're getting rid of that behavior, the thoughts. I push back against it. It's hard work. All right, it's hard work every day.

42:46

You almost have to get up like this and say, yeah, my name is Sandra McKecton. Good morning, Lord. I suffer with double consciousness, two streams of thought, two social identities. Thank you so much for sharing that. Just one more question just to add on to what you were saying in the beginning of us answering the past question. That was, for the audience members that aren't directly targeted by racism, how can they stay conscious of the impact that they're having on the people around them?

43:16

You mean the individuals that are directly affected and infected by racism? The individuals are not directly affected by it. Okay. How can they like say, you know, Europeans and white people in me? Yes. How can they stay like aware about what's happening around them? Like having conversations, like what's your... Jump into a training. I know it's difficult. Like some people would come into my trainings and they, the cameras are off. That's good. It's okay. But by the end they're participating. They're getting in there.

43:45

And yes, there's, they have been some too that are like, oh, come on, you know, give me an eight hour training with you. That'll change because we, we kind of want the same thing. And, and what's beautiful is when people have an invested interest, people that their, their children are marrying black, you know, they're white. Then people really get in it because it will affect you. Right. And I had a neighbor I invited to one of the trainings and she's white. One of her children married black. And so

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She said, and I said, you want to come? Cause maybe it might be necessary. She said, I can't, I can't. She was so traumatized and thinking you have to go to a training. I can't imagine anybody hurting one of my, my, my beautiful brown babies. Right. My grandchildren. Well, you know, it doesn't take much. And those young men, God forbid somebody put some steel on them and throw them up against, you know, and Taysen, all that kind of thing. It's just being prepared and understanding who

44:43

the Black people, Brown people, Indigenous people, Korean people are in your life and getting to know each other and understand why we talk about respecting people. Well, people have to first respect themselves, right? So we got to know who you are. Got to understand. I love what my I had a Korean brother that came on was talking about. He was one of the children that were adopted after the war and what that looked like. And I love what he said.

45:06

He was saying, I said, so because his parents are white and he loves his parents, you know, but he knows his adopted. He went back home. We did the back home journey. And I said, so he said, but I get treated differently. He was explaining the ways in which he gets treated differently when nobody's looking, when he's on holiday. But he said, as long as I'm under that white umbrella, which is his parents, he gets treated beautifully. But he has he has seen the bias in the soul of mankind that treat him differently when he is away from his family.

45:35

And so it's an amazing opportunity for us to hear those stories. And that's that's a huge healing education. Education. Just get in. It doesn't take much. You don't have to have a a doctorate in anthropology. You know, it's important just to hear what people are saying. Where did you get that from? And how does that look? Well, it looks like this in a multigenerational way. Come back with me. 21st century. Take them back. It makes sense that when I act like so and so.

46:04

It's because it's been passed to me epigenetically, DNA. It's in me. Did you guys ever watch Alien? You remember that movie? It's an old movie. I know I aged myself. Let's move on. You guys know Alien. Anyway, in this movie, it's about this big old ugly alien looks like some demon as a giant thing. And it was planting this like egg in Sigourney Weaver. It was killing people on the spaceship. I don't know if you ever might've heard about it. But did you hear about it Leslie? Okay.

46:34

But anyway, in this movie, this thing, whoever it went, it was just killing people everywhere and it would get into people's bodies and do things. So, Sigourney Weaver had to save this child. She's running from the ship and she's trying to save this child. She puts this child in the capsule to go back home, close it. They got rid of the alien, she killed it off, and she gets in her capsule and they go back to earth. But when she got there, she opened up the capsule with this beautiful little girl, opened it up, and she was dead. It was inside. It came with them.

47:04

It's inside the alien. So in the 21st century or the late 20th century, even that someone could just say, I don't sell tomatoes. It's in here. And we show up well on social gatherings. And it's lovely. But we've been constructed to think certain things about Black men, Black women, Indigenous peoples, Korean people. So on the show, we broaden where I understand now. We've been classified, yes, Black on the bottom of the rung.

47:33

Right. So you have Europeans first, of course, every indigenous people in their Asians and then on the bottom of the wrong or black. So, you know, put yourself do want to others as you want them to do it to you, put yourself you're at the bottom of the room. So that's my lane, the bottom of the room, and trying to get people to understand who cares about the wrong. Who are you put yourself at the top of who you are as a person of color. Yeah, absolutely.

48:01

Thank you once again, Sandra, for joining us. Sandra McKechnie, I'll say it right this time. You did. Woo! And you, why do you say McKechnie, right? We'd like to give a quick plug to your organization, Double Consciousness, so viewers can know how to connect with you in the future. We're just going to show a quick ad about you and what you do. And then we'll be right back after this video to get a.

48:27

tell viewers where they can find you and where they can connect with you in the future. Because your trainings are a great resource for anyone who's watching. And for anyone who's watching, if you wanna refer other people who you know who may need this training, please do because Sandra is a wonderful resource for anyone who's willing to listen.

48:44

So you have not subscribed. So don't just comment or say it to me or send me an email. Subscribe to the channel. Here's what I do. I offer cultural sensitivity and awareness trainings, learnings called double consciousness. Ah, those are amazing trainings. They are challenging, but they're amazing. And the feedback is great from these. It looks at people that came across the sub-Saharan trade, transatlantic slave trade.

49:12

Tartai colonization in relationship. This is in relationship to all people. This concerns everybody. We all have these biases and things that were instilled from generation to generation, you know, and we just think, oh, that's just how I am. Well, it's also how somebody else is, was, and has been passed to you. It is not your fault or mine, but together we can do something about it. So those are the trainings, learnings, and out of that came my video podcast.

49:40

Voices of Humanity at PR Connections Radio.com the voice of new media very proud of this little video Podcast the guests are fantastic People come on with their genuine selves Just really looking at who they are what they are in relationship to their biases People tapping into their conscious on awareness becoming aware first that they're unaware we know like I have a Korean brother that came on my indigenous sister that gave us some real understanding of

50:09

how her people, what lens they look through, and what is hurtful, what is offensive, just so that we can be aware of each other in the 21st century and treat each other well. So if you are in the upper echelons of management and maybe you get complaints and it's arbitrary, you would like things to change. Look at my trainings, look at the video podcasts, Voices of Humanity, and the third offering that I have is my coaching.

50:38

I'm a certified life coach endorsed by the International Coaching Federation and I

50:43

coach in the same area, double consciousness, anti-bias coaching, equity. I'm looking at all of these things in coaching and what are your needs as I partner with you, especially if you're management and you really need that opportunity to tap into your conscious on awareness. And you'd be amazed how wonderful this can be and how it can change things for you. And the coaching, the other area I coach in is also women that have had extreme challenges in their lives, extreme challenges.

51:13

and want to leverage all of that into living their best life. And I would really love to hear from you. Subscribe, subscribe, share, like. I appreciate you. Remember, it's not your fault or mine, but together we can do something about it. Take care of yourselves.

51:34

Thank you so much, Sandra. Oh, sorry. I don't know. Thank you so much, Sandra, for joining our show. Just before we end, how can viewers engage with their content more? They can actually go to my channel at Sandra McKechnie. You'll find it, and you'll see double consciousness there. Or you can, if you Google Sandra McKechnie, it comes up. You can see that, and you can go to my channel. Or you can email me at doub double with two Bs, double consciousness.

52:03

at gmail.com. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, thank you once again for joining us, Sandra. We had a great conversation. I really liked it. I talk a lot, but I just I get excited about the stuff. But it was wonderful to be here. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Do you have any parting words to leave with our viewers before we finish up for today? It's not your fault or mine, but together we can do something about it.

52:30

Fantastic, thank you. We will have another Deep Dive show in May and we will release the topic and our guest speakers and more information very soon about that. So stay tuned and we will see you soon. Thank you so much again for joining and thank you, Sandra.