How Small Businesses Drive Change

 

This is The ARCC of Change with Donzel Leggett, a podcast from the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition, an organization dedicated to eradicating racism and hate and spreading anti-racism. Listen as Donzel discusses relevant topics that will inspire you and help build your ability to take action and change the world. Because none of us are doing enough as long as racism still exists. And now, here's your host, Donzel Leggett.

Donzel: Hello, and welcome to the seventh episode of Season 2 of The ARCC of Change with Donzel Leggett. In this episode, I welcome ARCC members and small business owners Taylor Hubbard and John Hayes to discuss the importance of small businesses in driving change.

They'll share their perspectives and lessons learned, not only from running successful small businesses, but also from standing up, speaking out, and taking action to spread anti-racism and anti-hate in their communities, both as small business owners and as individuals. Now, let's get started with our show.

I'm Donzel Leggett, host of The ARCC of Change podcast and founder of the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition, or ARCC. Our vision at ARCC is to build a racism-free world, and our mission is to provide inspiration, education, and support for you to transform, practice, and spread anti-racism and anti-hate.

This begins with our three-step process for personal transformation to anti-racism. First, erasing your ignorance about racism and hate. Second, educating yourself about anti-racism. And third, building the character and confidence to stand up, speak out, and take action to spread anti-racism and anti-hate and make positive change happen.

As I've said before, this process is designed so that any one person can make a difference by committing to anti-racism and anti-hate and then influencing others to transform and start a mini-movement. That mini-movement grows and combines with other mini-movements started by individuals until it eventually becomes large enough to change the world. In other words, any ordinary person can make extraordinary things happen.

Almost 70 years ago, an African American woman named Rosa Parks made this happen by starting a mini-movement. Ironically, she did so not by standing up, but by sitting down in the front of a bus in a seat designated for white passengers and refusing to move. Her act of courage influenced others to join her mini-movement.

One person's actions became an extraordinary movement of hundreds, then thousands, now famously known as the Montgomery Bus Boycott. It is recognized as one of the key events that sparked the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s and brought the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to national attention as the spokesperson for the boycott.

But few people know that this movement would never have been successful without the support and actions of small business owners in Montgomery's Black community.

For the boycott to succeed, Black workers still needed a way to get to work and back home. Many of them worked in segregated white areas, far from the segregated Black neighborhoods where they lived. They needed an affordable alternative to the bus. Small Black taxi business owners came up with an idea that rescued the plan. Working together, they pooled their taxis and lowered their fares to match the cost of bus tickets. This allowed people participating in the boycott to get to and from work while still making ends meet.

But as the boycott's success became a problem for the segregationist city government, officials passed a minimum taxi fare and had the police enforce it. This made the taxis unaffordable for the bus boycotters and forced the small Black business owners to increase their fares. The government thought this would break the boycott.

Once again, however, small Black business owners in Montgomery rose to the occasion. Other business owners pooled their resources and personal vehicles to create a rideshare program. Of course, this was before smartphones, so they didn't have the benefit of Lyft or Uber apps to organize and coordinate rides.

A local pharmacist developed a detailed schedule to match riders with available cars and ensure they could get where they needed to be on time. He used his pharmacy as the dispatch hub. This worked beautifully and allowed the boycott to continue.

Without the courage and character of Montgomery's small business owners, who stood up and took action, it's very doubtful that the Montgomery Bus Boycott would have succeeded.

Small businesses are the oldest form of business and, to this day, remain the most common by far. Many people don't realize how critical small businesses are to the United States economy. Their impact is dramatically underestimated.

Here are just a few facts. In the United States alone, there are more than 32 million small businesses. They account for 99.9% of all business entities and 90% of the business population. We constantly hear about mega-firms and huge companies with world-famous brands. We hear about Amazon, Walmart, Apple, Google, Facebook, and many others. But we forget that small businesses account for almost 65% of newly created jobs in the United States—that's more than a million and a half jobs.

Although big businesses dominate the stock market and the news cycle, and their CEOs and founders are household names, small businesses are the ones that build personal and emotional relationships with us as consumers.

Think about the neighborhood bar or small restaurant where you're a regular. Everybody knows you when you walk in: the owner, bartenders, servers, waitstaff, and even the people clearing the tables. Every time you come in, they welcome you like family coming home. That's hard to replicate with a corporation like Apple, no matter how much you love your iPhone.

These close relationships can actually help shape your beliefs. What if one day you saw a sign in your favorite restaurant or bar that said, "We respect your pronouns, and all are welcome here"? Then you see a person who identifies as transgender walk in, and the owner and staff treat that person just as they treat you—like family. That experience might cause you to start thinking a little differently.

Think about your barber or hairstylist. These people help shape your outward appearance and, in doing so, can also help generate internal pride. It's a close connection, and they do all of this while talking with you. I know my mom loves going to her stylist just to hear the neighborhood gossip. He's her friend. I'm sure many of you have a stylist or barber who is also a good friend. When you go there, you feel at home.

But what if things changed the next time you walked in? What if the decor included images of people of different ethnicities, skin tones, sexual orientations, gender identities, and physical abilities? What if there were a sign that said, "In diversity, we trust," along with a rainbow flag and a Black Lives Matter sign? You might start to think differently.

Because of the personal connections small businesses and their owners build in the community, their influence on people's attitudes is greatly underestimated. Yes, they make a difference in the economy, as I mentioned earlier. But I would argue that they make an even bigger difference in shaping attitudes, the feel of a community, and its culture. They can make people feel wanted, welcomed, and included—not like an outsider who is separate from everyone else.

In our last episode, Lori Kelly told a story about the importance of a neighborhood bookstore in Oakland, California, called Marcus Books. For decades, this store has played an important role in providing access to materials about Black history and Black stories—resources readily available in the store but not necessarily available in schools, libraries, or other bookstores in the community.

Marcus Books has helped create access for people, particularly those in the Black community, to learn about Black history and the richness and diversity of Black culture.

Lori, who is white, talked about being a young college student who wanted to learn about Black culture and history. She went to Marcus Books and was welcomed, even though the staff knew she had no money. As she put it, she was "broke as a joke." She couldn't afford to buy books, but they welcomed her and let her sit in the front of the store and read books she couldn't afford. That made her feel welcome and part of the community.

It's important to remember that small business owners have a unique opportunity not only to positively affect their communities' economies by offering needed goods, services, and jobs, but also to create and influence positive culture and cultural change. They can do this through the personal relationships and connections they build and their ability to influence beliefs and attitudes in the community.

They develop emotional credibility over time, if they choose to. The question is whether they will make that choice. Will small business owners have the courage and character to potentially put their businesses at risk by using that emotional credibility to influence their customers, business associates, and other people in the community to stand up, speak out, and take action to drive positive change and spread anti-racism and anti-hate?

Today on the show are Taylor Hubbard and John Hayes, two small business owners who have stepped up and made that choice. They're here to share their experiences and perspectives on running successful small businesses, as well as what they're doing personally and through their businesses to drive positive change and spread anti-racism and anti-hate in their communities.

Taylor Hubbard and John Hayes join me next.

The ARCC of Change podcast is brought to you by the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition. Visit us at joinarcc.org to learn more about ARCC and join our movement.

Donzel: Welcome back to The ARCC of Change. As promised, joining us now are our two special guests to share their perspectives on small businesses and their influence on spreading anti-racism and anti-hate in the community. Those guests are Taylor Hubbard and John Hayes.

Taylor and John, welcome to The ARCC of Change podcast. How are you both doing today?

Taylor: Just great, Donzel. Good to see you.

John: Wonderful. Thank you.

Donzel: Fantastic. Thank you both so much for joining the show. This is an episode I've been looking forward to. I know you both, but many in our audience probably don't. So let's start by having you tell us a little about yourselves, your backgrounds, and how you got started.

Taylor, maybe we'll start with you.

Taylor: I'm Taylor Hubbard. I own a portrait and wedding photography studio with a storefront in Waconia, Minnesota, a small suburban community. Although my studio is in Waconia, I live in Chaska, so I live in one community and own a business in a neighboring community.

I'm married to my husband, Martin. We've been married for 18 years, and we have a son, Ethan, who will be going into second grade. I just turned 40 this past year, so I hit an age milestone. I've been working in the photography industry for nearly 20 years. After high school, I went to a vocational-technical school for photography, and I've been pursuing it as a career ever since.

I don't know if you want me to let John go next, or if I should talk about where I started.

Donzel: We'll stop there on the beginning of your story and let you get into some of the business details next. John, tell us a little about yourself and your background.

John: I live in Victoria, which is just a stone's throw from both Chaska and Waconia. For those who aren't familiar with Minnesota, these are small suburbs about 25 miles from the center of Minneapolis.

I'm a little older than Taylor. I'm 63, married to Lisa, and we're sending our youngest of four children off to college this year. I own a small brewery in Victoria, which I started about 10 years ago. I was mostly motivated by the desire to start a business.

I know we'll talk more about the business later. I'm still an avid runner, and I occasionally find time to read. My particular interests are biographies and history. Right now, I'm reading about James Garfield. My future plans include retirement, although I don't know exactly what that will look like. I have a feeling Lisa will have a significant role in shaping that.

Donzel: I'm sure she will. Thank you both for telling us a little about yourselves.

Let's turn to small business. Earlier in the podcast, I provided some context about small businesses, and obviously, you're both small business owners. Taylor, maybe you can start by telling us more about your business. How did you start it? What are some of the key milestones and growth you've experienced? What else would you like to share about your business? I know your husband also owns a small business, so tell us a little about small business ownership from your perspective.

Taylor: There's so much to tell about what it's like to own a small business, what it's like to have your spouse own a small business, and what it's like to have two small business owners in the family. There are a lot of trials, triumphs, and tribulations.

I started this career when I was a junior in high school and took a photography class. I really fell in love with the scientific aspect of photography. I know that sounds crazy. Most people fall in love with other elements of photography, but for me, it was the science: developing film, printing images on paper, and understanding the chemical process.

My fascination grew. I went to college and earned an associate degree in photography. While I was there, I learned more about my craft and developed my technical skills, including lighting and software. I also happened to attend school at a unique time for my industry because the photography industry itself was changing.

In the past, photography had been heavily dominated by men. The equipment was heavy, and there were many technical aspects to being a photographer. There weren't many women in the field. As I went through school, I was part of a larger shift.

Advancements in technology and the transition to digital photography broke down some of the barriers that may have held people back from entering the field, while also sparking the interest of others who wanted to pursue photography as a career.

After school, I was fortunate enough to get a job working for a photographer at a studio in Waconia. He had multiple sclerosis, which physically limited his ability to go out and take portraits. Someone else had been filling that role, but when she left, I stepped into her shoes.

I worked hard for him for seven years. Eventually, he realized he no longer had the energy to run his business. There's a lot of time involved in being a business owner, which I know we'll get into. I took over his assets, created my own LLC, and phased out his business. I've been running my own business in this community for 12 years.

I'm always learning and trying to grow. The things I initially fell in love with about photography have shifted and changed over time. That's a little of the history of how I got into my business. I'll let John go now.

Donzel: That's great. Clearly, you've been successful if you've been in business for 12 years. That's a long time for a small business, believe it or not.

John, what about you? You told us a little about how you started, but a brewery! I'm sure many people want to understand how that happened.

John: I started Enki Brewing with a friend of mine named Dan Norton. We'd known each other since the early 1980s, when we worked together. We shared interests in drinking beer, brewing, and running.

Our careers took us in different directions. His career took him around the world, while mine stayed here in a different field. But we stayed friends and spent decades talking over beers about the idea of starting a brewery.

As we reached the twilight of our careers, Minnesota's laws had recently changed, making it more attractive and feasible to start a brewery. Dan and I decided that if we were going to do it, it was now or never. That was 10 years ago.

You asked about key milestones. The first major milestone was the day we opened our doors and started pouring beer. A lot had to happen before we could do that. We needed equipment, regulatory approvals, and a brewer—someone who knew how to make beer on a commercial scale. Opening to the public was the moment we knew the business was real.

A second key milestone was moving from our startup location into our current facility. We went from a space of about 3,000 square feet to a 20,000-square-foot building. Instead of renting, we owned the building, which really committed us to the community. I'm happy about that.

Donzel: That's a great point. With the advancement of technology, cameras changed, and digital photography broke down some of the barriers that may have held people back from entering the field or sparked others' interest in pursuing photography as a career.

Taylor: Coming out of school, I had the opportunity to combine the foundational science of photography with the new technological aspects of the industry, especially digital photography. I was fortunate enough to get a job working for a photographer at a studio in Waconia. He had multiple sclerosis, which physically limited his ability to go out and take portraits. Someone else had been filling that role, but when she left, I stepped into her shoes.

I worked hard for him for seven years. Eventually, he realized he no longer had the energy to run his business. There's a lot of time involved in being a business owner, which I know we'll get into. I took over his assets, created my own LLC, and phased out his business. I've been running my own business in this community for 12 years.

I'm always learning and trying to grow. The things I initially fell in love with about photography have shifted and changed over time. That's a little of the history of how I got into my business. I'll let John go now.

Donzel: That's great. Clearly, you've been successful if you've been in business for 12 years. That's a long time for a small business, believe it or not.

John, what about you? You told us a little about how you started, but a brewery! I'm sure many people want to understand how that happened.

John: I started Enki Brewing with a friend of mine named Dan Norton. We'd known each other since the early 1980s, when we worked together. We shared interests in drinking beer, brewing, and running.

Our careers took us in different directions. His career took him around the world, while mine stayed here in a different field. But we stayed friends and spent decades talking over beers about the idea of starting a brewery.

As we reached the twilight of our careers, Minnesota's laws had recently changed, making it more attractive and feasible to start a brewery. Dan and I decided that if we were going to do it, it was now or never. That was 10 years ago.

You asked about key milestones. The first major milestone was the day we opened our doors and started pouring beer. A lot had to happen before we could do that. We needed equipment, regulatory approvals, and a brewer—someone who knew how to make beer on a commercial scale. Opening to the public was the moment we knew the business was real.

A second key milestone was moving from our startup location into our current facility. We went from a space of about 3,000 square feet to a 20,000-square-foot building. Instead of renting, we owned the building, which really committed us to the community. I'm happy about that.

For me, the third key milestone has yet to happen. That will be when I turn the business over to the next management team.

Donzel: Excellent. Thank you both for sharing that. John, I missed this: How long has the brewery been in business?

John: Ten years.

Donzel: Ten years. So, 10 years and 12 years for the two of you. Many people don't know that 20% of small businesses fail in their first year, and 50% fail within five years. I mentioned this earlier in the podcast. Both of you have clearly beaten those statistics. Taylor, you took over an existing business, but you still had to run it yourself.

What are one or two key challenges you faced that were critical to staying in business and beating those statistics?

John, what would you identify as one or two of the key challenges you had to overcome to get where you are today?

John: The thing about business is that 90% of what I do at Enki is the same as what I did when I worked for other people, helping them run their businesses. The really critical aspects are having a business plan and putting financial controls in place.

Unless you're a solo business, you also have to select, motivate, and train employees. Your people are really what will make or break you. I think those are the most critical things for us to be successful. Timing also matters. It certainly didn't hurt that we entered the brewing business when it was a rapidly growing industry.

Donzel: For sure. Excellent. Thanks, John. Taylor, what about you?

Taylor: My answer would be very similar to John's. Some of the key things you need to focus on to be successful are knowing your financials, knowing your numbers, and knowing your worth.

In my industry, photography is an artistic commodity of sorts, so there's a lot of room for people to set their own prices based on what they feel is fair compensation. That can vary depending on the person, their experience, and what they feel justified in charging.

I think knowing your worth is extremely important. There's always going to be someone who says you're too expensive, and there will be others who say you're too cheap. You have to know what you're worth and price yourself competitively while still making a profit.

All the time you spend away from your family and all the hours you put into your work have to be worth something. You need to walk away with money, and you have to feel good about making money from what you do.

Another important thing John touched on is service and quality. Whether it's you or your employees, your team needs to be qualified and provide good service. You need to deliver consistent service and consistent quality. You're building a brand, and that brand has to reflect what you want it to reflect—all the time.

Donzel: That's great. When people think about brands, they initially think about big brands like Apple, Walmart, Amazon, or Coca-Cola. They think about these huge companies and mega-firms.

Although the stock market is driven by those big brand names, and it can feel like they run the economy, they really don't. The energy of the economy comes from small businesses.

As I mentioned earlier, small businesses account for 65% of job growth in the United States annually. That's more than a million and a half jobs. More than 99.8% of businesses in the United States are considered small businesses.

Do you ever feel pressure, or what responsibility do you feel, in terms of helping drive the economy in your communities and providing jobs? In other words, how do you support the economic well-being of your communities by having a small business there?

John, do you want to start?

John: Donzel, I thought you were going to direct that question to one of us. I was so excited about the question that I forgot to ask who should answer first!

Donzel: No, no. Go ahead.

John: As I mentioned earlier, 90% of what I do is the same as what I did when I worked for somebody else. The other 10% was pretty unexpected.

Part of that is the reaction we get from the community and the sense of responsibility we feel toward both the community and our employees. As a business owner, when you have people whose livelihoods depend on the success of your business, you feel a responsibility to make good decisions and be there for your employees.

The same thing has happened with the community. When I started the business, I didn't anticipate the sense of loyalty that would develop between the business and the community.

During the pandemic, when we had to shut down, I remember it was St. Patrick's Day in 2020 when we had to close our taproom. We scrambled to open a takeout business so people could take beer and food home. We did incredibly well during that time, and it was because the community was paying us back and showing its loyalty to us.

You reap what you sow in the community. I didn't realize how much the community would look to us for support, so our response was to get involved.

Sometimes that means donating our time by going to festivals and events and pouring beer. Sometimes it means donating our products to other people's charitable activities. We also donate our space. We have an event center here, and local charitable organizations sometimes ask us to help host their events, connect with their audiences, and promote their causes.

We're very active with charitable organizations and community organizations that support the sense of community and spirit we have here in Victoria. That includes Volksfest, our annual festival, classic car shows, and the farmers market that we host in our parking lot.

Being an active member of the community is something we enjoy, but it's also something we feel responsible for.

Donzel: Awesome. Thanks, John. Taylor?

Taylor: Ditto! No, I'm just kidding. John has so many great answers.

We're a touchpoint in the community. I think about the services I provide as a photographer. Anyone can come from anywhere and book me, but most of my clients come from within the surrounding community.

When I photograph individuals and team leagues, for example, I'm directly serving the community. People really enjoy seeing a familiar local face. They know that if they have questions, they can come to my shop in the community. My reputation and presence here are important to me.

I like to joke that, even though I don't physically live in this community, I'm an unofficial townie. I know what's happening around town, and I have a lot of love for this community.

You can love a community you don't live in just as much as one where you reside. The people are wonderful, and the relationship is reciprocal. You serve the community, and the community serves you. It's a two-way street, and you feel that connection.

I also think about the impact of small businesses. I'm a small business, even by small-business standards. I'm pretty small, and I'm okay with that. I don't need to be a big small business.

Every year, I host a Halloween charity event. Families bring their children in costume. At first, people donated physical items, which I collected and brought to our local food shelf. During the pandemic, we switched to monetary donations because the food shelf could purchase much more with the money than with the physical items.

This past year, I raised nearly $800 through my little business for the local food shelf. I shouldn't say I raised it all myself. I provided a service that people enjoy: having their children's milestone moments captured in their Halloween costumes. People took the time to come in and donate, and that made a real impact in the community. I can't remember the exact statistic for how many families that supports, but it matters.

Donzel: That's awesome. Both of your answers are tremendous.

We're going to end the first segment of the interview right there. In this first half, we've talked about small businesses, how Taylor and John started their businesses, how they've succeeded despite the challenges many small businesses face, and the impact they're making in their communities.

In the second half of the interview, we'll shift to a deeper discussion about the influence small businesses can have in their communities—particularly in shaping how people think about culture, anti-racism, and anti-hate.

Come right back for the second part of this interview. Visit us at joinarcc.org. Follow us on Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter, and like us on Facebook.

Donzel: Welcome back to The ARCC of Change. We're here again with Taylor Hubbard and John Hayes.

In the first half, they did a great job of helping us understand the importance of small businesses, how they started their businesses and achieved success, and some of the ways they're supporting their communities.

Now we're going to shift our focus to influence. As I mentioned earlier, there are many more small businesses than big businesses. Big businesses get much of the publicity. They affect the stock market and make the news. When Nike takes a stand on an issue, for example, it makes headlines. Big businesses also have a major presence on social media.

But small businesses have people's hearts. People spend time at their local bar. They get to know the bar owner, who becomes a friend and someone who can influence their beliefs. People spend time at the barbershop, whether they're getting a men's haircut or having their hair styled. They get to know their barber or stylist, and that person can become a friend who influences their beliefs.

When people have family photographs taken, those moments become precious to them. A personal connection develops with the photographer who takes the pictures and helps them get into the right positions. It becomes personal.

Donzel: I want to hear from Taylor and John about whether they've seen things in their communities that have troubled them, whether related to racism, bigotry, bullying, or anything else they would classify as hate.

Can you give us some examples? Have you tried to promote diversity or start conversations with customers or suppliers to influence their thoughts and beliefs? And how tricky can that be when you're also trying to run a business?

It's a big question, but we've got some big thinkers here who can provide us with perspective. John, would you like to start?

John: I don't propose to have all the answers, but yes, I hear about racism, social injustice, and bigotry. I also see it.

I see it in the fact that our community is almost entirely white, which is itself a product of systemic racism. I understand that now because of the work I've done with ARCC and the process of educating myself.

For example, I've heard people say that Hispanics trying to enter the country through the border are doing so because they're lazy and want government handouts. I've heard that from people who don't think of themselves as racist.

I've also heard people say that the problem in the Black community is that there are no role models or that there are no Black fathers in the household. Again, it's infuriating because people say these things as though they're simply stating facts. They don't stop to ask why those circumstances exist.

It's not because someone is Black. It's because decades of racism have created circumstances and an unfavorable environment. It has nothing to do with someone's skin color.

So, to answer your question, yes, it's surprising and infuriating to hear the ignorance that leads to bigotry. It's frustrating when people simply state their positions rather than being curious or open-minded about why things are the way they are. Asking those questions would be a first step toward making positive change.

For me, the first step was educating myself. That started with the murder of George Floyd and seeing the unrest, rioting, and anger that followed. It led to a conversation with my sister. She asked me, "Don't you understand what white privilege is?" I told her I didn't know what it was at all. I started learning about it, and that eventually led me to reach out to you, Donzel.

You told me about the organization you were forming, ARCC. Being part of the organization has been a great opportunity to educate myself and learn how to have conversations with others. Hopefully, we'll get a chance to talk more about that.

At Enki, I've also become more public about expressing an anti-racist viewpoint. I have to tell you, the response has been encouraging. Every time I post something that I think might trigger a lot of negative reactions, I get only one or two negative responses and a whole slew of positive ones. That encourages us and emboldens us to speak out even more.

There are many things we can do. We can talk about some of our hiring practices and even our tipping practices, including why I've moved away from supporting tipping at Enki. But I don't want to take up all the time. Maybe we can turn it over to Taylor.

Donzel: John, that was a great introduction. I know you have some other examples to share, and we'll come back to those.

Taylor, I'd like to hear your perspective. Have you also seen misogyny? Sometimes, as men, we don't see it. As John explained, if you're white, you may be blind to the racism that exists in your community until something opens your eyes. Have you seen racism and other forms of hate? Have you experienced misogyny or been treated differently as a woman, even as a business owner?

Taylor: Yes. You can't see this because it's a podcast, but I'm in an interracial marriage. My husband is Black, and our child is biracial. This has been a journey of many years. We've been in the community, seeing things, learning when to speak up, when to speak out, and when to let certain things go. It's a challenge every single day.

I think about my husband, who owns a business that's bigger than mine, and how he's treated and viewed in the communities where his businesses operate. It can be really difficult. Just this morning, he told me someone had called him "buddy." I know that may not sound like a big deal, but it's a microaggression. Being called "boy" or "buddy" instead of "sir" or being recognized as the business owner is one way people try to diminish you.

That's something I face a lot, too: people dismissing me and making light of what I do.

There are a lot of photographers out there, and I'm fully supportive of people who want to follow their dreams and put in the work to make them happen. But people often regard my career as a hobby or a part-time job. They assume my husband brings home the household's only income and that my business is just a way to earn some extra spending money.

That's simply not the case. I bring in 50% of our household income, and I have the overhead and other expenses that come with being a business owner. This isn't a hobby. It's a career that I challenge myself to build and maintain every single day.

It can be discouraging when someone dismisses you, belittles you, or questions your skill level based on the equipment you use. It's not the camera; it's the person behind the camera. That's like telling a painter, "You must have a really nice paintbrush to make that happen." No, it's a tool. I could take an iPhone and still achieve great results, even if I'd face some challenges compared with the professional equipment I use.

I could probably talk about this all day.

I'm more curious to hear about John's tipping policy, since he gave us a good introduction to it. But I do want to say that these situations are challenging. I was talking about this with one of my employees. Sometimes, as a woman, I feel like I have two choices when someone challenges me.

I can be very confrontational, blunt, and direct, or I can try to gently make my case without being labeled with the word that often gets associated with women who are too forward. Those are the two routes I sometimes feel I have to choose between, and it's difficult to navigate those situations.

Donzel: It's terrible that both John and I knew exactly what you were talking about. You didn't even have to say the word. We were both nodding.

It's terrible that this is the situation we're in. When you've told me some of the things people, particularly men, have said to you, I honestly couldn't believe it. It's hard for me to imagine a man saying some of those things to me, especially the assumptions they've made about you.

Let's move into some of the stands you've taken. John, you've done things to make a point and change people's behavior. Some people have responded favorably and given you great feedback, while others haven't been as receptive.

One example is your tipping policy. I think it's really important, so tell us about it.

John: The history behind tipping is racist. Some people will argue that isn't true, but I believe it is. In the United States, tipping developed as a way to avoid paying Black laborers a wage. Instead, they were expected to depend on tips from customers. That history may or may not be directly relevant to tipping today, but it is part of its origins.

You also mentioned misogyny. Hearing Taylor talk about what she's experienced reminded me of conversations I've had with every woman in our business. Every one of them has experienced misogyny. They've all worked in the service industry in some capacity, whether in a restaurant or in a plumbing shop working at the cash register.

In our business, where we're providing a service to people who come in for a meal or something to drink, tipping is expected. Every woman I've talked to has said that male customers have sometimes treated them poorly, and they've felt forced to accept that treatment because it could affect the tip they receive.

That's one reason I don't like tipping today. It can put female servers in a position where they feel they have to tolerate poor treatment from male customers.

Another problem is that tipping distributes the income generated by the service unfairly. It favors the front of the house and neglects the back of the house. If you look at the back of the house across many businesses, you'll often find more people of color working there. So the income distribution is skewed toward white employees.

I don't like tipping for that reason, either. To address the issue, I decided we should get rid of tips, add a service fee, and distribute that fee equitably among all employees involved in providing the service to the customer.

Some people liked it, and some didn't. Some people didn't like that I commented on the history of tipping. But at the end of the day, many people told me, "I understand what you're doing, and I appreciate it." That's what I choose to focus on, and we still have the policy.

It's such an ingrained practice that, as Taylor said, you have to pick your battles. This isn't necessarily a popular battle to choose, but I still discourage tipping.

Donzel: I think tipping has not only racial overtones but all kinds of discriminatory overtones. Research has shown that people receive higher tips based on their appearance. Someone with a larger body frame may not receive the same tip. Someone with pink hair or piercings may not receive as much, either.

What we're trying to say is that this is America, and we're all different for a reason. We celebrate diversity.

We'll come back to some of the other things you've done, John. But Taylor, I want to talk about your decision to run for city council. You didn't have to do that. I don't think you did it specifically to fight hate, but it still put you in the spotlight. You could have kept a low profile, but to me, taking on that role is a way of taking a stand. You're a visible role model in the community.

Tell us about that and anything else you feel you've done to make a difference.

Taylor: Yes, I'm an elected leader in Chaska. I'm a city council member, although it's not the community where my business is located.

Sometimes I ask myself whether I was a little crazy to do it because my business carries my name. Your reputation as a person is your name, and my reputation as a business owner is also my name. They're one and the same. But I'm also the same person whether I'm walking through my business's doors and picking up a camera or walking into the council chambers with my laptop, ready to make decisions.

The decisions I make as a council member are strategic decisions intended to benefit the community of Chaska. I don't take that responsibility lightly. Everything I review and deliberate is important because it affects everyone who lives, works, or visits the community.

I didn't take on this role because I had an issue to settle or something to prove. But I've found that some people need to open their eyes to what leadership looks like. Leadership doesn't always look like the same person representing a community.

It's good to have diversity in community leadership because it brings unique perspectives to all kinds of issues, whether related to buildings, social matters, or other areas affecting the community.

I can bring a perspective as a woman, someone who just turned 40, a mother of a young child, and someone who lives in an interracial household. My husband is Black, and I'm white. We experience challenges that other households may not. Hopefully, I can offer a perspective that opens the minds and hearts of the people around me.

When I was elected, someone asked me what would happen with my child during long city council meetings. They asked who would watch him.

My husband. That's who would watch my child!

There was also a time when I had to bring my son to a work session because my husband was running late with his business and was going to come pick him up. Someone said, "Oh, if we're allowing this, can I bring my dog to the meeting?"

Donzel: What? That really happened?

Taylor: Yes. I was a little taken aback. It makes your jaw drop because you think, "My child isn't an animal. My child isn't a dog or a puppy. He's my child." I still have a responsibility to be there, and I also have a responsibility to my son. I can do both things, and that's okay.

Those experiences remind me why this is important. I understand that many people have a lot on their plates and feel they can't do everything. They may feel they can only focus on one thing, and that's okay. But I want people to see that you can have a career, a community role, and also be a mother, a wife, and a person. You can do all of those things.

Donzel: That's tremendous.

We're called the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition, and our vision is to build a racism-free world. But it's also about building a world free of hate and non-acceptance, where we can see everyone for who they are and value what they bring.

Our mission is to provide inspiration, education, and support to help people transform, practice, and spread anti-racism and anti-hate. That includes all the things Taylor is talking about.

One thing we try to do is make sure our philosophy of personal transformation to anti-racism and anti-hate reaches as many people as possible. There are three steps we always emphasize.

The first is erasing ignorance about racism and hate. John gave a great example of this when he talked about his own journey.

The second is educating yourself about anti-racism and anti-hate. It's not enough to say racism doesn't exist or that you're colorblind. It's about doing something.

The third is building the character to stand up, speak out, and take action. All three of you are doing that.

I'd like to hear a couple more examples of things you've done or are doing to spread anti-racism. I know the lines between your business and personal lives can be blurred.

John, have you had experiences where you've needed to talk to friends or people in your network about something your sister once raised with you, such as white privilege? I know you've also done diversity work within your business.

Taylor, the same question applies to you. Have there been other instances where you've taken a stand or talked with people in your personal network about anti-racism or other forms of hate, including anti-LGBTQ attitudes or misogyny?

Taylor, let's start with you.

Taylor: Because my career is visual, I used to not think much about representation when I put together advertisements, mailers, and other materials. I would just choose my favorite pictures or the images that worked best. For high school seniors, I might consider which school they attended or try to have a good ratio of different people represented.

But over the last few years, I've become much more intentional about displaying people of color prominently in my mailers. I want people to see themselves represented in what they see.

For kids, these milestones are exciting. They're reaching an important point in their lives, and I want them to receive something from me that showcases everyone in the community. Even though our community is predominantly white, I want people to know that others are part of it, too, and that these milestones matter to everyone.

A couple of years ago, I worked with a high school senior who used they/them pronouns. I wanted to make sure I did my due diligence to respect and honor them and their choice. I also think it's important to be honest and apologize if I make a mistake. That's part of reworking and re-educating myself so I can respect people for who they are and where they are in their lives.

A lot of my work involves high school senior and graduation portraits. I try to embrace the people who walk through my door, who they are, and what interests them. I want to engage with them and help them feel good about who they are in that moment. That's all they need to be.

I hope that answers your question.

Donzel: I think that's wonderful. The impact of visuals is underestimated. They help people feel seen, welcomed, valued, and respected.

I'll give you a simple example. This weekend, I was in Chicago. Most of the restaurants I visited had the same tipping policy John just described, making sure everyone working behind the scenes was treated fairly and wasn't forgotten.

But there was one small restaurant a friend of mine, Colin McGilligot, recommended. Colin is an ARCC member and was a guest on the podcast, I think in the second episode of this year. He told me to meet him at this Vietnamese restaurant.

When I got there, I saw a sign on the window facing the street. It may not mean much to you, but it meant a lot to me. It basically said, "Presidents change, but Wu-Tang is forever."

I knew right away what they meant. They were saying, "We're welcoming everyone." When you walked inside, you saw people of every shade imaginable. It was all good—just peace and harmony.

To me, those visuals show how small businesses have the power to make a difference in their communities.

John, go ahead.

John: Rather than get into a couple of specific examples, I can think of two situations just this week where I've had to talk with someone about appropriate behavior and respect.

I'm thinking back to what Taylor said about how to have these discussions, when to have them, and when to let something go.

The first thing I try to do is make it clear that I'm an anti-racist. Period. Second, as an anti-racist, I have to call things out consistently, every single time.

There are different ways to do that. My approach is not to be confrontational because my goal is to move a person, not fight with them.

I think back to the business strategy Dan and I created for Enki when we started the business 10 years ago. We had a two-word business strategy: "Be friendly."

When there's conflict, the natural tendency is to fight. But fighting doesn't necessarily help you achieve what you want. It's not the best way to get your interests met unless it's a last resort.

Instead, we try to find a friendly way through the conflict. Usually, that starts by trying to understand the other person's perspective.

I'll challenge something by asking questions like, "Why would you say that?" or "Why would you think that? Help me understand what you just said."

I try to engage people in a dialogue about something I consider racist, misogynistic, or simply insensitive. For example, if someone makes a sweeping statement about homeless people and assumes they all just don't want to work, I'll ask, "Why do you have that attitude toward homeless people? How do you support that idea?"

That's the approach we try to take as a company: understand first, then share your perspective after you've learned a little about the other person's point of view.

Donzel: That's great. I have to mention another example from my weekend in Chicago. Colin McGilligot really personifies what John is talking about. He's also an unabashed anti-racist, but he believes he can change people through conversation.

When he met me for lunch, he was wearing a hat that said, "In diversity, we trust." He wears that hat intentionally because he knows someone may stop him and ask, "What do you know about that? Why are you wearing that?"

Then he can say, "How about we have a conversation about it?"

He told me that more often than not, they end up having a conversation, and he's able to help them see something from a slightly different perspective.

That's really great, John.

I'm going to give both of you one last opportunity. If there's one message you'd like to leave our audience with, this is your chance to share it. John, let's start with you.

John: For most of my life, I was naive. The last couple of years have opened my eyes to the enormous problems our society has with racism and other social injustices.

I've learned that there are some bad people out there, but they're relatively few. The bigger problem is what I call silent complicity. It gives permission to the people who are behaving badly.

The fight is to educate and give a voice to all those silent people who appear to agree with the few who behave badly. I know many of them don't actually agree. They're just not prepared or comfortable speaking out.

I think the work of ARCC is profoundly important. It's given me a voice. I think back to when I was 20 years old and first encountered blatant racism. I didn't know what to think or what to do. Now I feel much more prepared and confident to address these issues—not necessarily to fight, but to address them and hopefully move people.

I recognize that it's different for everyone. Some people have a much harder time speaking out and standing up. Those people can definitely benefit from joining ARCC.

In the meantime, there's something we can all do. I think, Donzel, you taught me this: get out and vote. Vote for the people who will help make the changes our society needs.

Donzel: Well said, John. Thank you. Taylor?

Taylor: I have a lot of thoughts swirling around in my head.

As a small business owner, I think my final thoughts are about appreciating the people who support small businesses and recognizing the tireless work small business owners do for their communities, their employees, and themselves.

I also think it's important to love people first, be there for those who need support, and be part of the community. And, as John mentioned, when things aren't right, we need to have the courage to stand up and be part of the change that makes things right.

Giving a voice to people who feel voiceless and creating opportunities for those who need them are both really important.

We're all part of a community together, and we need to have real conversations with one another so we can change and become better. That's important whether we're acting as a business or as individuals.

Donzel: Thank you, Taylor. Well said.

I want to thank you both. This has been incredible. You've shared what I would call very impressive stories.

First, to the people in our audience who are small business owners and may be struggling, aren't sure they can make it, or are thinking about starting their own businesses: you've proven that it can be done. You can be successful.

You've faced trials and tribulations, difficult starts and stops, and tough decisions, but you've made it work. And you've done it while supporting your communities and doing what many small business owners are afraid to do.

As John said, there's a silent majority in the middle who would rather not speak out. But you two have said, "I'm a small business owner, but I'm going to have the courage and conviction to stand up for what I believe in. I'm going to speak out. I'm going to do things publicly. I'm going to change policies when necessary. I'm also going to talk to people close to me, and I'm going to make a difference."

We're not going to change every single person. As John said, there are some people who are too far gone, and we're not going to reach everyone. But we're trying to reach the people who don't currently have the courage to speak out—the people whose silence gives permission or power to those doing harmful things.

Audience, you have two great examples of fantastic people who run small businesses and have the courage and conviction to stand up and do what's right. They deserve to be applauded.

I want to thank both of them for inspiring our listeners today. Thank you, John. Thank you, Taylor.

John: You're welcome. Thank you, Donzel.

Taylor: Thank you. I appreciate that.

To find The ARCC of Change with Donzel Leggett and learn more about the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition, or ARCC, please visit joinarcc.org. You can also subscribe to The ARCC of Change with Donzel Leggett on your favorite podcast hosting sites.

I greatly look forward to our next episode and another opportunity to inspire you to become part of the movement that will change the world by eradicating racism once and for all.

Until next time, stay safe and continue to ask yourself, "Am I doing enough?" Remember that none of us are doing enough as long as racism and hate still exist. Thanks for listening, and goodbye.

The ARCC of Change podcast with Donzel Leggett is brought to you by the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition. To learn more about ARCC, donate to our cause, and join the coalition, visit joinarcc.org.

Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode, and share this podcast to help spread our mission to change the world by ending racism once and for all.

Thanks for listening. Until next time, stay safe and be inspired.