FIGHTING TIMES: An Interview with Activist and Author - Jon Melrod

Podcast Introduction

This is the ARCC of Change with Donzel Leggett, a podcast from the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition and organization dedicated to eradicating racism and hate and spreading anti-racism listened as Donzel talks about the relevant topics that will inspire you and help build your capability to take action and change the world because none of us are doing enough as long as racism still exists. And now here's your host, Donzel Leggett.

Episode Introduction: 

Donzel Leggett

Hello and welcome to the 10th and final episode of season three of the ARCC of Change, with Donzel Leggett in this episode, I welcome John Melrod, best-selling author of the new book Fighting Times, who over the last 60 years has fought on the front lines of the war to end racism, classism, and sexism, and is one of the very few to have confronted the KKK volunteer for SNCC and the Black Panther Party and be investigated by the FBI for his action. John's incredible, inspiring story provides our most powerful example yet of hope, that's H-O-P-E, or How Optimistic People Endure. Now let's get started with our show. 

So, I am Donzel Leggett, host of the ARCC of Change Podcast and founder of the Anti-Racism Commitment Coalition, or ARCC. Our vision at ARCC is to build a racism-free world, and our mission is to provide inspiration, education and support for you to transform, practice and spread anti-racism and anti-hate. This begins with our three-step process for personal transformation to anti-racism. The first step is erasing your ignorance about racism and hate. The second step is educating yourself about anti-racism and the third step is building the character and confidence to stand up, speak out, and take action to spread anti-racism and anti-hate and make positive change happen. 

Now, we started 2023 with our first episode of Season 3 titled HOPE: How Optimistic People Endure, in which I highlighted the fact that although progress is slow in the fight to end racism, and fight for equality in in social justice, we all must dig deep and stay optimistic and endure the struggles, the setbacks and the frustrations that come our way. Because eventually, if we stay at it and stay together, progress will be made. I profiled and interviewed many guests throughout the season and shared their stories of perseverance, optimism, and endurance in the fight against racism and hate as examples of HOPE: How Optimistic People Endure to inspire you to transform, practice and spread anti-racism and anti-hate. 

But I have to say that as we close 2023 with our 10th and final episode of season three, my guest today has the most incredible story of personal transformation into a true soldier on the front lines of the war to fight racism, classism and sexism. He made the choice to voluntarily sacrifice whatever privilege he may have had or could have had. To stand up, speak out and take action to spread anti-racism and anti-hate and make positive change happen while suffering economic hardship. And even putting himself in physical danger over and over again. He has to be one of the very, very few people, if not the only person, besides maybe Stokely Carmichael's most certainly the only white person that I'm aware of to have done all the following. He confronted the KKK and police in Mississippi 50 years ago or so, which at that time were one and the same. He volunteered for SNCC. The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, of which the late, Great Representative John Lewis was a a founding member and chair. He volunteered for the Black Panther Party and even served as a bodyguard for a senior Black Panther official, all while being investigated by the FBI for his actions. Named one other person. Who's done all those things? Like I said, maybe Stokely Carmichael, I can't think of anybody else. He's the activist, the revolutionary, the cancer survivor, the best-selling author of the new book Fighting Times, organizing on the front lines of the class war and his name. Is John Melrod. He is here with us right now to close out season three with a bang and tell his truly incredible and inspiring story of yes hope. HOPE: How Optimistic People Endure. John, welcome to the ARCC of Change.

John Melrod

Well, thank you so much, Donzel. And that was really a beautiful introduction. It made me shiver that your description, I guess, you know, it's always been what I've done, so I don't look at it as anything that's unique. But what I do hope is over the discussion today I can contribute to your movement to your podcast and inspire people as you say, because these are difficult political times. You know, I agree with you that hope is always there, and we have to continue. The mission of trying to change the world for the better. But it can be a bit demoralizing. Sometimes when I look back to what we believed in the mid-60s when we thought the world was ours to change, and that by this age I assumed we would live in a much better world that was free of racism. And free of sexism and just free of the tribalism that we're experiencing. Today. So, as we get into it, that’s what's always been in my heart is we can make change and we'll. Talk about how. We're confronted with, you know, other workers in the factory who are racist. I was able to get them to understand why and how us uniting. Empowered us and the same with women. When women were being just so much misogyny by both the auto company and by the Union, the International Union of the UAW, again, we had to fight on both fronts to. Make those battles something that would move the ball forward for all people.

Donzel Leggett

Man, thank you. That's just a taste of what John has in store. John, I had the great pleasure of getting to know you. This is like our third, I think, conversation, you know, on Zoom. But many in our audience don't know you. I've had the great pleasure of reading your book, we'll get to that here in a second. But maybe you can go back and tell yourself your just the audience a little bit about yourself, your background, where you came from. I think that's important. As I talked about you voluntarily making this choice, you didn't have to. So, tell us about your background. Uh, kind of, where are you today? Where's your current situation? What do you do? And then we're going to get into Fighting Times.

John Melrod

All right. Well, just to try and be brief, I grew up in Washington, DC in the 50s, and Washington, DC, in the 50s was very much part of the South. I mean, Jim Crow was alive and well and that's where I first got my taste of realizing that the world had basic inequities in it. I can remember when my father was very proud, he had just bought a Chevy Impala and he took the kids out to the countryside for a drive and on the side of the road I was looking out the window and there was an all-black chain gang chained together at the at the ankles chained together at the waist, wearing black and white stripes and, big prison guards sitting on top of horses with long guns. And just as a child, that imagery stuck with me. Why? Why are some people being treated like this? And really, as I began to think about it and mature a bit, it was clear to me, why was it only black people that were on this chain gang? And, you know, pieces began to fit together. I was just thinking about it before we did the interview, something that I had forgotten a long time. In Washington, DC, in those days, the milkman used to deliver your milk and put it in this little silver insulated box by your back door. The milkman was always a white guy.

Donzel Leggett

Hmm.

John Melrod

The garbage collectors were all black. And later it became very clear to me that that was very part and parcel of the segregation, and almost the apartheid living that existed in Washington DC at that time. When they bought air-conditioned buses for the city, they were all concentrated in the northwest side, which is where all the white folks live. You know, you get out of the Northwest side and they’re all old, raggedy buses, you know, with windows that hardly open, and anyone who's ever been to DC knows what the summer is like. So those are really experiences, and one more I want to talk about in particular because this I think was transformative for me in my life. 

We used to go, in the summer, out to an amusement park in Glen Echo, Maryland, just outside DC, and in 1960, the students from Howard University, one of the top black educational institutions in the country, decided that they would picket Glen Echo to try and integrate the amusement park. Something that would be, you know, inconceivable to us today, but as a kid, this is what I was observing, and the white racists came out of the woodwork and they were, you know, beating on the pickets. They were, you know, pushing the pickets out of the way. And finally, what they did is, they came and threw bleach into the pool so that nobody could use it. White or Black, which in a in a way shows you how stupid these divisions are because they hurt white people as well as black people. Nobody had a pool to swim in. But those early lessons stuck with me. And as I began to become involved in things in the civil rights movement, which, as you say, I started out—

Well, they killed 3 civil rights workers in 1964. Schwerner, Cheney, and Goodwin, who were all in the South, registering black voters, which in those days was a dangerous proposition.

Donzel Leggett

Yes.

John Melrod

And the police in Mississippi arrested the three civil rights workers and had them in the jail. Well, they let him out the back door of the jail. They get handed him over to the Klu Klux Klan and they were never seen again. They had been buried in a bog, which was discovered years later, and even when there's a trial years later, if I'm right, they never convicted any of the Klan’s members who had been involved in it. So that made me really think to myself, these guys are only a few years older than I am.

Donzel Leggett

Yes.

John Melrod

And that could be me. And I gotta do something about that. So that's when I first went down to the SNCC Office student number on coordinating committee in DC.

Donzel Leggett

Wow.

John Melrod

And you know, I had that experience in the Northwest in the summer. The bus was nice and cool, but as soon as we got outside, they had a transfer to the first bus, you know, going into the black neighborhoods, it was hot, it was sweaty, and it was definitely not on the same bus system, at least in terms of who was allowed on and who rode where. 

Donzel Leggett

Mm-hmm.

John Melrod

But I spent that summer stuffing thousands of letters. With Schwerner, Chaney and Goodwin’s picture on it informing people about the travesty that have been committed to those three civil rights workers, and to this day, I still have that image burned into my mind, of looking at the letterhead showing these three young men, 2 white and one black, who had been killed. Soon after that, I was in high school, and there was a young SNCC member in Georgia named Julian Bond. 

Donzel Leggett

Yes!

John Melrod

Julian Bond was elected to the Georgia Legislature back in 1965, but Julian Bond had spoke out against the Vietnam War. And this was very early, I think this was before Doctor King had even come out and spoken in opposition to the war. So I decided on my own, I don't know where the inspiration came, from but we should start a petition demanding that the Georgia legislature seat Julian Bond. By this time, they had refused to seat him three times, he had been reelected after they'd kick him out. So we passed this petition. Every single student signed it. I got up on a table in the lunchroom and just raised my voice and I laid out the case of what this was doing to America, what the Vietnam War was doing to American kids and Vietnamese people. Who were being literally burned to death in their huts.

And to my amazement, everybody signed that petition, and we sent it down to the Georgia legislature and I guess you'd have to say that's where my point of activism really began, because I remember how nervous I was at 15 to stand up on that table and speak out to everyone.

Donzel Leggett

Now, what was your parents’ reaction? To all of this, I mean, you started this is you're 15.

John Melrod

Yeah.

Donzel Leggett

What, how did your parents react? Cuz I'm sure this was not their plan for you. I think your dad was a self-educated attorney or something like that?

John Melrod

Yeah, my dad got to Washington, DC with $5 in his pocket. And the way he went to law school, he didn't have any money for tuition. So, he’d go sit outside. In the hallway and ask the other students to open the transom so he can hear the lecture and take his notes sitting out there.  And in those days, you didn't have to go to a law school. He just went to the Public Library and studied law books and prepared himself to take the bar. So obviously he had hoped, like most parents do, that he would make a better life for me. But here they saw me choosing to take up the struggle of people who were not being treated fairly in society. And I think they were a bit, I wouldn't say unhappy, but I think they were a bit confused. You know, how I had gotten on that path?

Donzel Leggett

Ohh.

John Melrod

In fact, at one point, I this picket line— this was, this had to be in ‘65 as well. We were picketing the South African Embassy in Washington DC to protest Apartheid and…

Donzel Leggett

Yeah.

John Melrod

…the police tear gassed the area around Dupont Circle. And when I got home, my parents were very upset because they knew that's where I was going. And they had seen on the news that it had been tear gassed. And they said, “why can't you do something like March for the Jews in the in the Soviet Union who are being oppressed? We're Jewish”. And I said, “I understand what you're saying, but I also understand what's in my heart. And I have to pursue my vision of what can make the world better here in the United States”. So that's that was how things really got launched. And from then on, I was a political activist. Through high school and through college, I went to University of Wisconsin, Madison, precisely because it was the epicenter of so much student outrage and insurgency.

Donzel Leggett

Which is interesting for you know, my generation, I'm a little bit younger than you. We, you know, like we know that like the Black Panther Party was in Milwaukee and all of that but having a vision that the student body at the University of Wisconsin was kind of a student body that was protesting or anything. I mean I did not know that till I read your book tell us about your years at the University of Wisconsin and what you're talking about it being the epicenter.

John Melrod

Well, when I got there, you had to go sign up. There was no computers. Obviously. He had to wait in these long lines to sign up for your classes. And when I was finished, they sent me over to another table and they said, “you have to sign up for Reserve officer training”. And” what are you talking about”, you know?

Donzel Leggett

Wow.

John Melrod

I'm against the Vietnam War and that's you're training officers to go lead the troops in that war. But it was obligatory. You had to attend seven classes as a freshman to be eligible to graduate at that time. So, I saw a poster up on the on a telephone pole that says, “come to the students for a democratic society meeting. Learn how to oppose ROTC on campus, make them leave campus. They have no right to be forcing students into the Vietnam War”. So, I went to the first meeting of SDS and it turns out that I was in the very first ROTC class that semester. And I was delegating with getting up and confronting the 2nd Lieutenant who was teaching the class. So I ran back to my dorm and I studied everything I could find about Vietnam so I'd be prepared. And I went to class that Monday and. After he had spoken for about 15 minutes of all the benefits you could get if you were in the ROTC and how your school would be paid for. I got up and I said, “you know, most of us here don't want to be in ROTC, and most of us here don't want to go to Vietnam. Because we don't think that's a fair war, we think that's an unjust war that the US has intervened in a civil war and France was kicked out of Vietnam in 1954 at Dien Bien Phu, and the US stepped in as the next colonial power that was going to try and rule Vietnam”.

Donzel Leggett

Mm-hmm.

John Melrod

And I said, “that's why so many of you second lieutenants are getting fragged or shot in the back by your own troops because soldiers are protesting the war”. And then we, about 30 or 40 of us out of a class of probably 75, got up and walked out. And the amazing thing was that we went out and educated the other students about what we had done. We went through the dorms, knocking door by door, explaining the war and explaining why we opposed ROTC. And a referendum was held, and the vast majority of freshmen voted to kick ROTC off campus. And then the student government voted to kick ROTC off campus. And then they had to kick ROTC off campus so that they were no longer these mandatory ROTC classes. 

But you know, initially I was primarily involved in a lot of movement against the Vietnam War, but then a very important phase in my life began in February of 1969. There had been an organization called I, I think it was the Black Students Alliance. And they have been bargaining with the university for a couple of years. Very peacefully petitioning and meeting and encouraging the university to admit more black students. Out of some 30,000 students, there were 500 black students that attended Madison, and there was a large black population in Milwaukee, so it's not like there was a shortage of young people who wanted to go to school. 

But the administration refused. They refused to include ethnic studies. They refused to provide a Center for the black students where there would be a cultural social center, and they refused to increase the admissions. So, the Black Peoples Alliance called for a student strike. And the first strike was only black students. There were kind of a lot of nationalist students who said, “we can do it on our own as blacks we don't need Whites’ help.” Right, it didn't work. I mean, 500 students out of 30,000, you know, that's not going to win a student strike. We joined the SDS and we said, “we're going to be there with the black students as long as this takes. And no matter what they face in, in building this struggle.” 

So at first, we erected what we called impenetrable picket lines, which meant that a line of ten of us would line up on the steps in front of a classroom building and we would close it. And we virtually closed the liberal arts part of the campus. But at the same time, we were going out and educating people as to why, why the original sin of slavery had now lived, left a legacy that black students weren't being offered the same opportunity as white students. Well, the governor Lucy called in the National Guard, and they came out with, you know, their bayonets on their long guns, their rifles and they marched up to where we were and, you know, they were shoving their bayonets in our face to open the doors to the school. So that night we decided we had to do something dramatic, and we called for a March on the capital in Madison. This is an unbelievable story. 10,000 students showed up to march. Wow. That means out of those 10,000 students, if every one of the black students attended, that was 9500 white students who were marching for black students to win more admissions to win ethnic studies. And when I hear people criticizing Critical Race Theory, that it's going to make white kids feel embarrassed and their feelings will be hurt, that's nonsense. It's crazy. It's a question of education. It's a question of showing people why together we can create a better world and try and get rid of some of these sins that have lived with us since the founding of this country.

Donzel Leggett

Yes.

John Melrod

So, I mean that to me was living proof of what we could do. One of the individuals that used to come to speak on campus quite frequently was chairman Fred Hampton of the Chicago chapter of the Black Panther Party. A lot of people he is because there was just a movie. I think it was the Black Messiah, Messiah and Judas. 

Donzel Leggett

Yeah, great Judas and the Black Messiah. That's right.

John Melrod

I said, Judas and the Black Messiah, *laughs* I reversed it. But, and that story from people who haven't seen it briefly gives you an understanding that when Chairman Fred was assassinated, he was assassinated by undercover agents, by an undercover agent who had drugged his meal or his drink that night at dinner, and he and his wife or girlfriend had passed out on their bed. And in the middle of the night, Chicago police burst in, guns blazing, and they assassinated him. And it was a brutal murder in the end. When the investigation was done, all the bullets but one were shot from the outside in.

Donzel Leggett

Oh my gosh.

John Melrod

In other words, the Panthers weren't even able to defend themself. One Panther, who gained some consciousness, shot off one round of a gun before he was killed. So, there was no distorting the facts. And behind the Chicago police had been the FBI in their COINTELPRO, which was their surveillance agency— surveillance program, excuse me, which was really directed at destruction of the Black Panther Party. I mean there's, you know, now been many, many books written on it where it's been documented, you know, the FBI's memos and files, saying that, “we have to get rid of the black movement, the black nationalist movement.” And in the end, J. Edgar, Hoover wrote, “We have to stop any black Messiah who can lead black people in this country.”

Donzel Leggett

Wow.

John Melrod

And that black Messiah was Fred Hampton, because he joined people together like nobody else could. He organized the first Rainbow Coalition. A lot of people think it was Jesse Jackson. Fact it was Chairman Fred who had the white Patriots who were like southern white kids who lived in Chicago.

From the, you know, Appalachia, they had the Brown berets who were Chicano Mexican Americans. And they had the young Lords who were Puerto Rican street gang that had organized themselves to fight for the people. So Chairman Fred had all these groups working together, and that was something that the FBI definitely didn't want to exist. 

Donzel Leggett

Big threat.

John Melrod

And they got rid him

Donzel Leggett

Wow.

John Melrod

And after that, couple of months later, we invited Bobby Rush from Chicago. Many people know him as a congressman.

Donzel Leggett

Yeah. Absolutely.

John Melrod

And Bobby Rush was then that had been the Co-chair or assistant chair under Fred Hampton. When we invited him, he had taken over leadership of the Chicago chapter of the Panther Party and he was scheduled to come to Madison to speak. And I was assigned to be the bodyguard to pick him up at the airport, which was a serious undertaking because they had just assassinated Fred Hampton and nobody knew what they were willing to do to Bobby Rush. In the end, Bobby had to cancel because he had another engagement. And the Deputy Minister of Defense, Calvin, I forgot his last name now, was who was designated to come. So in the morning I borrowed an old Chevy from one of my friends and UM. You know, this might shock people, but this is what the day those days were like, I brought down a shotgun and I put it in the back trunk of the car and I went out to the airport and I picked up the Panthers. There were both Calvin and then his two bodyguards, and they got in the car and they loaded up, they took out their guns, took out their bullets. In those days, you could carry a gun and bullets on a plane if they weren't. In the same bag. And they took out their guns. And I, you know, I said to myself, you know, “you don't know what's going to happen this day, but you know you're doing the right thing,” you know, and that's what I kept saying to myself is “this is the right thing.” You know, if you're asking if you're hoping that black people are going to reach a point of liberation and you don't believe they can do it alone, then it's got to be contention on us young people to be part of that struggle and to take on that same risk. So, when we got to the student union, we got out of the car and went through a back door. And both of Calvin's bodyguards got on the sides of the stage, and I was positioned right next to him with a shotgun on my hip and you know, I— it's, it's funny. It's almost embarrassing to say, but I thought to myself, “Damn, I'm gonna get kicked out of here for sure tomorrow because they're not gonna let some students stand up here with this shotgun. And then what am I gonna tell my father worked so hard to create a better life. And his kid got kicked out of school, you know, for being protecting the Black Panther Party.”

Donzel Leggett

Yes *laughs*.

John Melrod

But luckily, there weren't cell phones, so nobody got a picture of me standing there and I was able to— I didn't get kicked out. But. You know that those were lessons that. Really determined what you were made of.

Donzel Leggett

Yes.

John Melrod

Whether you really had the fortitude to fight for change because, I soon after that I was designated to sell the Black Panther Party paper to students on campus.

Donzel Leggett

Right.

John Melrod

And I used to get 350 papers a week and we had a team that would go out and sell them and we would sell almost all of those 350 papers to students. Well, when I finally got my FBI filed many years later, after three or four appeals, the first time, my name appears in 1000 pages is “John Melrod at this phone number and this address called the Black Panther Party in Chicago.”

Donzel Leggett

Wow.

 

John Melrod

“Put him on the surveillance list.” So before I even knew that I was a twinkle in their eye, they were conducting surveillance on me.

Donzel Leggett

And this is all while you're still at the University of Wisconsin. I mean, you, you would barely, what, 21 years old at this time? All this has happened.

John Melrod

Now I would think I was 19.

Donzel Leggett

19 and all of this. This is incredible. Stories of standing up, speaking out, taking action to make positive change happen that it's unreal and he's got so much more to say.

John Melrod

Well, it is unreal because. As I think back about it, we were 17 years old. Yeah, and we were out there taking on, you know, taking on the world and planning to change it, planning to remake it as a better world with more humanitarian values, with equality for all people, with justice, for people. And what we decided was I was part of a group, one of these Students for Democratic Society, unfortunately fractured due to political infighting. We formed, we were part of an organization called RYM2, Revolutionary Youth Movement 2, and we had two platforms that determine why RYM2 two existed. One was that upon our graduation, we would go into the military to organize against the Vietnam War, because at that time, most vets had turned against the war and that was in the end, that was the reason that the US stopped fighting because they couldn't get vets to go out and do the fighting. Vets would go out 200 yards, sit down, wait for the day to end and go back. Go back to camp without having engaged the quote enemy at all and you know soldiers were rebelling. There were 225 underground newspapers at bases and in the military in Vietnam. I'm telling the truth about what the fight was not about poor and working people. The fight was about protecting the rich class that has interests worldwide. 

The second part of our ideology was that we believe that it was really only the working class that had the power and the organization to bring about fundamental change, systemic change, to the system under which we lived. So, in ‘71 when I graduated, I left Madison and headed from Milwaukee with about 20 or 30 other students and about 10,000 students nationwide who were doing the same thing, committed to the same basic principles of working in tanneries and steel mills and auto-assembly plants. You, you know, whatever it was. You know, wherever you could land a job, that's where you went to organize. 

Donzel Leggett

Wow. Yeah, I mean that that, that again was an incredible turn in the story. I mean, you go to university with guy again, your father works his way to be an attorney. You decide you're going to take on this fight to try to change the world, and you've just recounted some incredible things that you've already done and you're just now that that's all in college high school and college. Now you graduate college and instead of going and taking a big paying job, you go and take the lowest job you can get in a factory so that you can experience what working people have to experience that are not unionized to try to help organize them. Why? I mean, I read that, and it was very difficult me to grasp because you put yourself at risk. You're being exposed to dangerous chemicals and dangerous equipment and people are, you know, this is terrible working conditions, and yet you voluntarily put yourself into these positions. Why?

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John Melrod

Well, my beliefs were pretty strong that if we didn't do this, we couldn't change society and we were willing to take that risk and take on that obligation and you know you mentioned that I had to work around dangerous chemicals. And that was true. At my first job I was instructed to go down into this big cement vat. Actually, my straw boss was a Mexican guy who says, “Juan, I got a bueno good job for you. You clean the vodka,” I said, “the vat?” and, “Yeah”, I said. I looked over. There's a barrel of trichlorethylene next to it with a skull and crossbones. And I'm thinking this is not a good job. This is not a bueno job.

Donzel Leggett

No. No bueno. No bueno trabajo. *laughs*

John Melrod

No. And he said, I said alright, where's you know something to protect my breathing and you know, some PPE. We didn't call it back then, but protective clothing. And he says, “John, that's for sissies. Get down in there and clean it.” And I'm like, “alright, well, if I've decided that I'm going to go to work to make a difference, I got to do what other workers are doing.” Yes. Got down in the vat and I began to feel like I was drunk. My head was spinning. My legs were getting weak under me. So I jumped back out after a minute to get some fresh air. And I had to do that, sort of like a leapfrog going up in and out for about I don't remember how long it was for. And each all that time, I'm sleeping in with a wisp room, these particles of trichloroethylene that had dried it on the bottom of the pit. Later, I also had to work in Trichlorethylene when I worked at American Motors, which was one of the automobile companies in the United States at that time. In 2004, I was diagnosed with terminal pancreatic cancer and I was only given six months to a year to live. And on the doctor’s authorization for surgery, it's written that the pancreatic cancer caused by exposure to toxic industrial chemicals and tanning solvents because when I was fired from the auto company, which was a firing that the FBI directly orchestrated and I know to some people, these things are going to sound beyond belief, I would recommend that they go to.

Donzel Leggett

Yes, yes.

John Melrod

Jonathan Melrod, JONATHATHANMELROD.com and I put up the pages from the FBI file right up there so that people can see what I'm talking about.

Donzel Leggett

I've seen them and they're also in the book, and I think there's some copies of pages in the book as well.

John Melrod

Exactly. You know, I've weaved them a bit together.

You know I— It was, it was, it was. It was tough, you know, I mean, I lay in bed that night. They told me I didn't have more than six months or a year. And when I told them I just couldn't die, I had a 7 and a 10 year old, that their response was “you got to put your fares in order.”

Donzel Leggett

Wow.

John Melrod

And, it's a long story, and that's also in on my website. A full explanation of what I did to fight the cancer because I didn't— I wouldn't use chemotherapy for a year and radiation, but I also went and used alternative medicine. And you know, I changed my diet. I moved out of the city. I got out of a bad marriage, you know, and I removed all those anxieties and stress, which I fully believe are part of what causes these illnesses. Yes. And I said to myself, as I lay in bed that night in the hospital, I went through this exercise and I said “when you get embarrassed, you turn red and when you get become afraid, you get goosebumps. Well, isn't that your mind affecting your body? And if your mind can affect your body in that way, can it affect your immune system? To fight an illness.” And I convinced myself that I would. Be determined that there was no way I was going to die and that I was going to continue to live and I was going to believe that I was going to live, which is very important because when they tell you don't have that much time, you know, you look at them as they're the doctor and you're bucking the system. When you say, “I'm not going anywhere” and luckily I did live. My kids later wanted to know was it really true that I got pancreatic cancer ‘cause I worked in a factory, and why couldn't I have been a lawyer like my father? And that's when I set out to write the book. Because. I said “damn if I do leave this world and my kids are this young, they'll never understand why I did what I did with my life.” So in the end during COVID I kept writing and writing, and I ended up with a book. But that's how that phase of my life unfolded from the chemicals that were in the factory. Nowadays, I don't believe they'd be there because you've got many more controls with OSHA and you know the, you know, the Union and. But those days, you know, the company really ran roughshod over us and we'll get to some more stories of where the supervisors just behaved in such, such overt racist and sexist ways that that became a major part of our battle in the factory.

Donzel Leggett

Yeah, you tell so many stories in the book that give these just real examples. It's hard again for like, you know, I'm 55. So I was born in ‘68. So when I was coming up, I came up in the 80s, you know, really. Yeah. I was a kid.

John Melrod

*laughs* You're kidding.

Donzel Leggett

So by the time I, you know, got into the workforce, you know, a lot of that stuff had kind of been cleaned up. And I worked in factories and, you know, I've never saw anything like what you're describing. But you heard about it. You heard that this stuff used to happen to hear you. Experience it and literally tell stories. It's just hard to really believe, but you know, you know that these things really happen. So you, you're, you're now you're in working in these factories, you're part of the Union. You're starting to help organize. And the thing I thought that was really interesting to me is how you were again, you described it earlier, how you had to change the working-class culture to understand that uniting and not being divided by racism in class was one of the most essential things to gaining power to fight for their rights. Tell us how you did that in some of the ways that you were able to get people on board because if they aren't part of our struggle is how do we help others transform and take on anti-racism. And you had several people that were absolutely some of the most races you could describe and some of the most sexist, and you somehow were able to bring them together. How did you do that?

John Melrod

Well, I have to start a little bit back. I went to work first in the Milwaukee auto plant of American Motors and we organized a caucus of young workers within the Union who wanted to change both fight the company and change the Union, make the Union more democratic. To make the Union more willing to stand up for the workers, you know, to get rid of sort of these let you. Know a lot of. People went and took union jobs. Because they can get off their job easy and they can, you know, they wouldn't have to work and they wouldn't do anything, you know, and the people were became very resentful of the Union and the company.

Donzel Leggett

Right, absolutely

John Melrod

So I organized, pulled together this caucus of young guys, couple of black veterans from Vietnam, another Puerto Rican veteran from Vietnam. Couple of, interestingly, a couple of young black church ladies who really are understood the sense of community, the sense of togetherness. In fact, one of them was treasurer in her church and she said, “can I be the Treasurer of the caucus?” So, you know, we really, it was all of us were young and enthusiastic. I mean, these were the days of Woodstock and long hair and platform shoes and the, you know, the world was just there for us to change it. 

And they company speed up the assembly line, added three more cars an hour to everyone's job. I think we were already doing almost a car a minute. And we couldn't do it. I mean, the work was just too tough. So the group of us in this caucus got together and we put out a flyer that we handed out at the gates in front of the plant that said, “Fight speed up. Walk. Don't run. The contract gives us the right to work at a normal pace and a normal pace means working at a pace where you are being treated with respect and dignity as a as a human being and a worker.” And interestingly enough, the older workers began to school us. They showed us how you could stay in the car that you were working on. I was putting in tail lights that you could stay in, and I would put those tail lights in no matter how long it took me and when I kept going past my workstation, working at a normal pace, I would knock the next guy down the line and he would knock the next guy so they weren't getting cars off the line that were fully built. You know, the aisles were filled with cars that had to be repaired. The roof was filled with cars that had to be repaired and, we decided that we would up the ante and we went and made some T-shirts. Those days you couldn't go to Kinko's or whomever and make a T-shirt. We got this silk screen and we made a stop sign on it. They said stop speed up and we got some red paint and we did it on white T-shirts and we stole them all the next day. And the day after that, we sold another couple 100 and the company went around and they said “everybody wearing AT shirt tomorrow is going to be fired.” And I said to myself, “wow, this is pretty serious and I've only got about seven or eight months in with a lot of guys who've been here 25, 30 years and I'm I don't want to be the one that provokes their discharge for wearing a T-shirt.” Yeah. So something interesting happened. A steward came up and he bought a T-shirt. He said he's gonna wear it in the next day, then a chief store that's over a whole department, I was in the trim department, he came and bought a T-shirt and then the vice president of the union came and bought a T-shirt. Well, when everybody saw that they were wearing them, they said the next day everybody wear yours in, which everybody did and the company had to take the work off our jobs and hire people in off the streets and we won that battle, we won it. 

But the word came out that the International Union in the United Auto Workers was in cahoots with the company and they were gonna fire me. They were saying that I was a radical, that I had been involved with the Black Panther Party, that I had been against the Vietnam War, all of which were. True. But of course, the way they cast it, saying that the President of the Union has okayed this discharge, you know, people weren't quite sure. Who? Who? You know who to listen to? And, I was looking down the line and three guards were coming up toward me and they physically lifted me up off my feet because I dug in. I wasn't leaving and they picked me up and they dragged me down the assembly line. A lot of workers were yelling to stop work to protect my job. But they were able to get me out of the plant and discharge me. Now I do get back 2005 days later, when that courts finally put me back to work. But here's a point of unity.

Donzel Leggett

Yes.

John Melrod

There had been a black Chief Steward, who had run for president of the union. And I had gotten our caucus to back him in that election. He was part of another caucus called Black and White, Getting it Together. That was the name of the caucus. Well, they came up to me and they said, “can we support you at the Union meeting and call for a strike vote to get your job back.” And they put out a flyer. And they said, “this is unjust. Nobody’s ever been fired here for following the contract and protesting speed up.” Yeah, well, the international got wind of that *laughs* and they're not dumb. So what they did is they got the one Black International representative who would come out of that same factory to go to the Union meeting to try and corner all the black workers like “don't support Melrod. You know, you could lose your job for striking if he, you know, if you vote to strike in the end.” We did win the vote to put the grievance into a strike procedure, but the President of the Union took the clicker and threw it on the ground, says, “this damn clicker doesn't work.” Called for a voice vote and said, “the Nos have it.” And then we looked in the back of the room, it was lined with police. Well, it was years later that I found out that my discharge was orchestrated by the FBI.

Donzel Leggett

By the FBI man…

John Melrod

In the memo in in on my website and in the book Fighting Times which people can get by going to pmpress.org. and putting in the name “Fighting Times” and then you'll get a discount code if you type in “gift” in capital letters, GIFT in capital letters so people can, you know, pick that up if they want to hear more.

Donzel Leggett

GIFT. Gift.

John Melrod

Then it will be able to cover but in the file. Well, one of the early letters was that the FBI sent a memo to AMC and they said, “get rid of Melrod and don't ever let him back to work. You know, he's causing sit downs. He's causing work stoppages. He's tied in with people that are doing this in other factories. You know, they're nothing but a bunch of radicals and no good communists”, and you know, whatever else they could throw at us. Interestingly enough, that's what the company, when they got to the court at the National Labor Relations Board, the judge called them out in a 30-page decision that said that they were bringing about the McCarthy days from the 1950s, painting everybody with this broad brush, calling them communists so they could get rid of them. So even the court had ruled that that's that was wrong, the discharge, but they wouldn't let me back. They followed the FBI's advice, and it took me going to the federal, I mean the, the appellate court in Chicago, and they ordered me reinstated.

But I wanted to tell one more story before I go back into being reinstated, because to me this is the lesson that you and I have talked about that is really teaches me and I think everyone how people can change and how people can get rid of racist ideas. I went to work after I had been fired. It was hard to find a job because they kept tagging after me and telling the employers to get rid of me till I finally like went, you know, make sure nobody was following me and, you know, got a job at a steel fabrication factory. And we went on a 8-week strike that our caucus, I formed a caucus among young guys on 2nd shift. Had been telling people that we if together if we united, we could win better conditions and a pension fund, there was a decent pension you could live on. These guys that were in the caucus were all white muscle-car driving, basically redneck-type guys, you know, they had all been in juvie, you know. And when they were always talking racism, using the N-word, you know, here and there in the bar after work. But we stopped every day. I said, “why do you guys got to keep talking like that,” you know? And they said, look, “we were in juvie. And in juvie, it's whites and Indians together. It's blacks on one side and it's Mexicans on the other side. And you gotta fight each other for who watches what TV show and who gets the popcorn. And so we hate them.” And I said, “but that's just a bunch of nonsense.” At that point, Big Carl, who was 6 foot 5, and I'm 5 foot five gave me a right hook and I went flying off the bar stool and I can't remember if I sprained or broke my ankle, but in any event, we go out on strike and you know, we were the ones that really led the strike.

The Union didn't do a damn thing. They're what we call a business union. They sat in the Union Hall and didn't come out and lead us on the strike we got people you know. In those days, if you needed food, you'd go down to the welfare office, they give you a big brick of orange, what they call cheese. But it's hard to believe that was actually cheese. And they give you some peanut butter. And that's what, that's what you needed to keep alive. And we would win when they threatened to take away strike benefits which were only $25 a week from the young workers, we said “we're going to march on the steel Workers Union Hall” and they gave us those benefits. But then they did something where they, that really hurt. They took away one of these young guys, cherry red trans am with big white, big white tires. They repossessed it. And there was a pail of depression to send it on the assembly line, and guys actually came up to me and said, “OK, Melrod, we listened to you, we did what you said. Now what are we going to do about Eyeball’s car?” So I said, “OK, we're gonna go out there and picket. GMC, The finance company for GM. Yes. And we're gonna picket it until they give us his keys back.” And they were all “Melrod, the court already ordered it.” I said, “no, no, nothing in this world is determined. We can do things that you never think thought we could do if we do it in numbers.” We went out there to pick it. With 75 of us. All of a sudden two carloads of Black guy show up.

And everybody on the picket lines, looking back, these white guys are buzzing to each other. “Who are they? What are they doing there?” And they join in with us, and they're champing. We want his car back. So three of us went in to meet with the manager myself, and I bought another brother. And we said, “we want Eyeball’s car.” He said, “No, no, the court ordered it, read it, repossessed and we got it. And you know, it's our right to own it.” And we said, well, “we're on strike and we're not going to let you take away his car that he's paid on up to now, because he missed one month's payment.” And they said, “no, we're not. We're not. We're not caving in.” So I said, “you see all those guys out there in the next two minutes are all going to be in here and we're not leaving here until we get Eyeball’s keys.” Sure enough, he hands us, the guy says, “Take the goddamn keys. Get the hell out of front of my office.” We went home and it was like a great victory. But here's the point of the story. The next week, the same black guys were on strike. They were all meat cutters and eight plants in Milwaukee were meat cutters, and it was almost all Blacks and they were strong union guys.

Donzel Leggett

Ohh wow. OK.

John Melrod

And their companies were trying to break their strikes by bringing in police and strike breakers. And I said to our guys, “let's go down there and join with them.” Guys are kind of nervous, you know, I mean, this was basically in the inner city. Yeah. You know, all of the 8 meat packing plants. They did it. We took about 3 carloads of guys down there and they were nervous at first. But within 5 minutes they were right in there on that picket line, arms locked, holding back strike breakers and their attitude had changed. It didn't matter how much talking I did. It was when they saw that black workers supported them and they could support black workers, that they understood unity.

Donzel Leggett

That's even— even Big Carl, he was down there too?

John Melrod

Not only was big, Carl was down there Eyeball was there, Wild Man was there, Dog was there. They all came, you know? And couple of years later, I was looking at my pictures. Well, I actually have them in an album here and I saw a Big Carl and Wild Man at marches for other strikes, so they stayed active, you know, so that's one of my stories on my real belief that people can change if you don't lecture them, but you kind of show them in real day-to-day life what unity means.

Donzel Leggett

That's great. Yes.

John Melrod

When I went down to the assembly line in Kenosha, which was a much more rural plant, we started up our caucus again down there, and pretty soon I was elected steward to represent people. And there was this one particular foreman, and his name was Steve Freeman. One day this young guy and this young girl come up to me and they say, “hey, Melrod, you're a you're a steward. We want to tell you about this foreman, Freeman.” We were sitting in the bar before work. They were on 2nd shift and so was Freeman and we saw that we decided to be nice to him and we said, “hey, come on over, we'll buy you a drink.” So he comes on over and he points into the back where people are dancing and he says to this, it was a guy and a girl. He says “you let that shit happen up here?” And they said, “what are you talking about?” He says “you let blacks and whites dance together?” And they were like, “dude, yeah, we do.” And they came in and they told me about this guy Freeman.

Donzel Leggett

I'm guessing he didn't use the word blacks. I'm guessing he used another word.

John Melrod

I'm going to get to where he used the other word because he was such an overt racist that it was even hard in the end for the company to believe they had to fire him. But you know, I started to come in on 2nd shift to check with the workers that were angry and filing grievances against Freeman. And I talked to this one black brother who said, “yeah, yeah. He took this 35 LB air gun and threw it at me and called me a lazy MF N-word” and I said “that ain't right.” We got to do something about that. And then he said, “well, go talk to those two black women over there about what happened to them.” And I went over to them, and I said, “Have you had any problems with Steve Freeman?” They said yeah, “he put his fingers like with his thumb up and his forefinger out like a gun, and he played like he was shooting us with a pistol. Then he came over and said, ‘Bang Bang, two dead black birds.’” And if that wasn't enough, he said to one of the women, “I'd like you better if you weren't so flat-chested.” As God is my witness, this is the truth.

Donzel Leggett

What?

John Melrod

So there were many more stories, but I don't want to belabor them, people can read the book. But we decided we started a petition that everybody on 2nd Shift signed 300 people. You know, we had all 7 stewards follow them around like they were puppy dogs. They wouldn't leave them alone. And there was one provision in the contract which said if a supervisor does union employee work, you can write him up a grievance on it and get paid an hour and we used to call that bounty hunting, so we put out a flyer that said, “bounty hunting is open. Watch for Steve Freeman.” If he picked up as so much as a screw, he got written up, but finally topped it off was 26 out of 27 people in his hand and his section raised their hand at the same time and demanded to go to the bathroom. So he finally they couldn't run the line because he couldn't stop them from going to the bathroom. After that, the Union brought in the Fair Employment Practices Committee that one of our caucus members was on and they went to the company and it was the first foreman they'd ever discharged for that for behavior, you know, for acting like toward other workers. And this wasn't an isolated case. I mean, I know we've been talking for a long time now, and I have a few other things I do want to make sure I squeeze in.

Donzel Leggett

Sure, go ahead.

John Melrod

That again showed that in unity there is strength and there was strength in our unity to get rid of him. 

Donzel Leggett

Absolutely.

John Melrod

We were contacted by the United League of Mississippi, which was a black organization in Tupelo, Ms. and this was in about God. I can't remember the book. I think it had to be about 1983. And. They had asked us activists from around Milwaukee and Kenosha to come down and join them in a Labor Day March because the Klan had reactivated itself in that area of Mississippi. And the Klan was terrorizing people, burning crosses. And that other demand was that black, that businesses hire more black workers because very few businesses would hire blacks. And the other demand was that farmers, white farmers, big agro farmers, stopped stealing the land of individual small black farmers, which was going on.

Donzel Leggett

Yes.

John Melrod

Hundreds of thousands of acres was getting stolen. So we put out a flyer at the factory that said “we're going down the South to March against the KKK. You know, they're racist. They, they, they are down on unions, you know, they're down on black people. They're down on Jews, you know, and we've got to stand with the people of Tupelo.” So we were, we took our, you know, we got it. We rented a greyhound bus. And we, you know, we tried to sleep overnight on the bus, but we pull up the next morning. We pulled in front of this building and I have a picture of it. In the in the book. And on the logo of the building, it is Tupelo Police Department and out the doors walk 20 police all dressed in their white clan robes with the white pointy hats and they had brand new axe handles in their hands and pistols in their pockets. And I said, “Oh my God, you know, what are we going to do if they attack us? Because the police are the Klan and the Klan are the police.”

Donzel Leggett

Unreal.

John Melrod

You know, so we got ready to march and it was one of the most, the scariest episodes of my life, you know, I mean, there were a lot of, you know, Southern whites that hadn't woke up to where the world was and was going to be in the future and they were all lining the Main Street with their shotguns and their long guns. And I said, “damn, I mean, if they opened fire, this is, you know, we're done for.” So I happen to go up to the front of the March and I looked in this pickup truck that was leading the March and around it were all these young black Vietnam vets. And in that pickup truck were their weapons from Vietnam. So they had come back with that lesson that, “OK, if the Klans were armed and it's like we've got a nuclear weapon and they got one, it's mutual self-destruction.” So you know we concluded the march, we came back up to the plant and we put out a flyer explaining what we had done and what we thought we had accomplished. Well, not everyone agreed with what we were saying or what we had done. And I went out after work one day and I went to the Tavern. Sounds like I stopped at the Tavern a lot, which was the correct in those days *laughs*. And I felt something sticking in my side, and I looked down and it's a 38 and the guy says to me my name is Dead Eyed Demarino and I'm a member of the white People's National Associates Party. I'm a Nazi. And you're that goddamn commie Jew that puts out the Fighting Times newsletter.

Donzel Leggett

And this is back in Wisconsin, but you're back. You're not in Tupelo anymore. You went back to your to work after you went back, and you put out the letter about what you had done. So this guy approaches you and the boy pulls a pistol in your back. Geez…

John Melrod

In my in my stomach. Yeah. And you know, and I said, God, you know, how am I going to get out of this? So I said “bartender, Midori, double shots for both of us. I said then let's do them right down and then I said another round, Midori.” Sorry, well, after a couple of hours I started saying to Dead Eye, I said, “Dead Eye. You're in the trucking department. You drive a fork truck. When all of the fork truck drivers stopped driving and had to sit down and strike because one of them had been injured by a radiator cap not being on the radiator and he gotten burned. Who was it that supported your sit down?” Well, he said, “I guess that was the Fighting Times”, and I said, “and what did they do when they fired that steward, who supported you in that fight to get hat steward back to work?” “Yeah, I guess that was you guys.” And I said, “well, let me ask you, why are you so goddamn upset about Fighting Times?” And he says, “you know, I guess you guys really are for the Union, and I'm for the Union. So we got that in common.” And now he's hugging me. You know, it's three hours later, we're both stumbling around hugging each other, and he's calling me brother. You know, I'm behind you. You know, I'm your supporter. And from that day on, you know, he never made comments like that. And you know, when Hillary Clinton talked about a basket of deplorables? I really resented it because she was talking about guys like that who, if you're there with them, and if you're telling them the way it is, can change. And that's what your podcast is about.

Donzel Leggett

Absolutely.

John Melrod

You know? That people can change. Well, I've been so excited to get on it and wait and we had to postpone it a couple times and each time I was like “damn, when's my time going to come?” But. Yeah. So.

Donzel Leggett

It's here. It's here, Manny. And you are just, you're just doing a fantastic job, man. These stories are unbelievable. And I got to tell you, when I read the story about Demarino, I had to read it, like, three times, and I just kept saying to myself. Damn, I don't know what I would have done in that situation for you to be that cool and calm. To say let's have a couple of shots, he barked at you there to give a couple of shots and then three hours later, this guy's hugging you, man. And that's not the only time that you've been threatened, is it? Is it not? That's not the only time.

John Melrod

No, it's not. The only time. I mean, there was another foreman, Bernie New, who is the general foreman, excuse me, and on the night before the Thanksgiving break, he was walking around saying “I'm going to find me a piece of, you know, ‘ey ey’. Tonight I'm gonna find myself.” He's, you know? And he's broadcasting it to everybody. And the women were really upset about it. And they came to us and they said, can you guys do something about this? About Bernie New.

Donzel Leggett

It's terrible.

John Melrod

So we wrote an article. Most of our articles in our little newsletter that came out once a month were written by people in the factory, and if they didn't know to write, you know, then we would do it with them, because a lot of guys who would come up from down South and whatever didn't have the writing skills to be able to write even a small article, but it was really important for us to train people and so we put out an article and we said, “Bernie New thinks he's the new Don Juan and this is what he was doing on the night before Thanksgiving. And we're not going to let this go on. We're not going to let women be treated this way, disrespectfully in the factory that we all work in.” Well, he got busted down from general foreman to Foreman.

Donzel Leggett

Oh boy.

John Melrod

Then the word went out. That he was going to get me. And he's part of the New Clan. That was a family. Their name was NEU, and they were all big guys. And they were all always fighting behind the bar. And one of the foremen who kind of liked me came up and said, “John.”

Donzel Leggett

Oh my God.

John Melrod

“Take that seriously. He's going to come get you.” So then for about two weeks it was, you know, I was worried I'd walk out of the plant and be looking around to make sure he wasn't there and about on the second week, I got to my car, I had a Thunderbird. In those days, when the Thunderbirds had that Hood, that went out about 7 feet. Out in front of the bar.

Donzel Leggett

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Melrod

And a padded roof. And got to the car and there wasn't a window left in it and it was 0° out in Wisconsin. He had taken out every window. There wasn't even a Shard of glass left. And, you know, we all knew that Bernie knew and exacted his pound of flesh. And I'm driving home.

Donzel Leggett

Yes.

John Melrod

Like in a wind tunnel with 0° warm weather coming back at me. So you know, there were a lot of those kind of incidents. You know that that that occurred over the time that I was there.

Donzel Leggett

Man, John, this unbelievable and you know, we got to have you back because there's so much more that you can cover. I got to say again, the book Fighting Times is an unbelievable book. It is so incredible and we’ll talk more about it here in a second. But please go out buy it. But I do want to give you one. Day. To is there one message you'd want to leave the audience with again, I'm gonna have you back next season, cause there's just too much. There's too many other stories that are so valuable and examples of transformation, personal transformation and helping others transform that we got to have you back. 

John Melrod

1. Now I'm gonna hold you to it.

Donzel Leggett

But the yeah, for sure, for sure. But is is there one message you at least want to leave this the the audience with as we end 2023?

John Melrod

Yeah. You know there is and it came. It's at the last page of my book and I had always read books about. A socialist at the around 1917, name was Eugene Debs. People who have heard from him, he was arrested and incarcerated for refusing to serve in World War One because he said “this is just a war between big capitalist countries and it doesn't serve working people's interests.” And this quotes from him “to stir the masses, to appeal to their higher, better selves, to set them thinking for themselves, and to hold ever before them the idea of mutual kindness and goodwill based upon mutual interest is no render real service to the cause of humanity, is to render real service to the cause of humanity,” and I've tried to live by that slogan and a lot of young people who are organizing at Starbucks and organizing at Amazon, who bought my book and got in touch with me. They said how inspired they've been by it and that means so much to me, that's what I wanted to do, besides giving my kids some idea of who I was, I felt that I could tell these stories in a way that people would understand, that we can make the world a better place. Every one of us has an obligation to do that. And it doesn't matter how small or large your contribution is, it's just the fact that you do something. So that's the message I would leave people with and really appreciate if they pick up the book or go on to the website. JonathanMelrod.com.

Donzel Leggett

Thank you. Thank you for being a true example of standing up, speaking out and taking action with courage to create real change. You've given us so many examples of real change. You've shown us of what a true personification of doing that really looks like. And I also want to congratulate you on publishing your book. You know, not a lot of people can write a book, and this is a phenomenal book Fighting Times, organizing on the front lines, the class war. I’ve already said, I'm gonna say it again, I thoroughly enjoyed this book. It was extraordinary, in my view, in terms of just bringing forward just so many great stories and so many details. John shared a few, but there are so many more, I guarantee anyone in the audience, if you buy the book and read it, you're going to catch yourself saying, “wow,” you heard me saying “wow,” a lot of times on this podcast. 

And I was reading. I kept saying, wow, I kept saying, “What? John did that, I can't believe it!” You'll be laughing. Some of the stories that John tells you will be entertained, enthralled. And like John said, you will be inspired. John again, thank you for showing us again what being a true soldier is all about, a soldier on the front lines of the class war and the war to end racism and hate, what that is all about, reminding us once again like you just said, hope starts with each one of. Us. By following the examples of you but not doing everything you did the exact way we could do whatever we can do. Over the last 60 years. You've been doing just incredible things that are examples of being of, of being truly optimistic and truly enduring. But not everyone has to do it that way. You may not agree. You may not like all the things that John has done, but you can't argue that he stood up, he spoke out and he took action and we all can do that same thing. Every little bit that we do will make a difference because it all again comes back to us. And like I said, the beginning of the podcast. If each of us does something, what we can do and every day we do a little bit. Or. And of all of us as individuals and collectively we do that like John said, not only can we change our families and our friends transform them, we can transform our communities. We can transform our places of work. We can transform our state, our countries. We can transform the world. That's what HOPE is all about. How Optimistic People Endure. So again, thank you, John. Again, I will have you back on the ARCC of Change and one last word from you.

John Melrod

Yeah, that was a beautiful ending that you just recited. I just want to say to people who wanted to make the book available so that nobody's price is not an issue. So if you go to pmpress.org and you find the book and you put in the discount code in capital letters. GIFT “gift” it's affordable for everyone and it's a good Christmas present.

Donzel Leggett

Fantastic again, I could attest. That that's it for season three. We'll be back in 2024 with our 4th season of the ARCC of Change, and we'll bring John right back to talk about all the other stories he left out. Have a wonderful holiday season, everyone happy New Year to all. Thanks again, John.

John Melrod

Thanks so much. I really appreciate that being on.

Speaker 1

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Donzel Leggett

To find the ARCC of Change podcast with Donzel Leggett and learn more about the anti-racism, Commitment coalition or art, please visit us at joinarc.org. You can also subscribe to the ARCC of Change with down to Leggett on your favorite podcast hosting sites. I greatly look forward to our next episode and opportunity to inspire you to become. Part of the move. That will change the world by eradicating racism once and. We're all until next time. Stay safe and continue to ask yourself, am I doing enough? And remember that none of us are doing enough as long as racism and hate still exists. Thanks for listen. And goodbye.

Speaker 1

The Awkward change podcast with Donzel Leggett is brought to you by the anti-racism Commitment coalition. To learn more about art, donate to our cause and join the coalition. Visit joinarc.org. Don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss an episode and share this podcast to help spread our mission to change the world by ending racism once and for all. Thanks for listening until next time. Stay safe and be inspired.